PP 034: Kristen Beireis from Coaches Marketing Source

Kristen and I discuss the importance of choosing the activities in our personal and professional lives which feed our souls and allow us to add value – and revenue – to our businesses.

.@life_enthusiast & @thekimsutton discuss the importance of choosing the activities in our personal and professional lives which feed our souls and allow us to add value - and revenue - to our businesses. http://www.thekimsutton.com/pp034 #podcastClick To Tweet

Episode Transcription

 

KIM: Welcome back to another episode of positive productivity. This is Kim Sutton and I’m so happy to have you here today. I have guests “Kristen Beireis”. I love how she told me to pronounce her name “Beireis” not pastas, that’s just great, from Coaches Marketing Source. Welcome Kristen. Thank you so much for being here.

KRISTEN:  Thanks for having me, Kim. I’m excited. It’s going to be fun.

KIM: Yes, it sure is. Listeners, it’s amazing who you can come and contact to.  Yeah. Let me try that again. Come in contact with, when you’re hosting a podcast and you don’t even realize until you actually get on the pre show or even just talking beforehand. Kristen and I live within – what? Twenty minutes of each other?

KRISTEN: Thirty or so, yeah.

KIM: Yeah, so we’re definitely watch out in the future for something to happen. Maybe Facebook live or real life video podcasts. I don’t know how we’ll work that out, but yeah, it’s just really amazing though, like when you put yourself out there who you can come in contact with and why. So, if you just put yourself out there today and see what happens. But Kristen, please, I’d love for you to tell the audience like more about you.

KRISTEN:  Which part about me? (laugh)

KIM:  (laugh) –Well, so you are a coach or are you, sorry, you work with coaches

KRISTEN:  -and I’m a coach..

KIM: -and you’re a coach and you say you’re not a huge love of attraction person, but gratitude, gratitude is important to you and I’d love to hear more about that and how you also mentioned – how people come up – comment yet. Don’t get flustered by your mouth issues. So let me just. I’m not going to edit that part out because I don’t. I don’t. (laugh) I’m just going to keep on rolling with the punches today. You say that people come out on your positivity. I would just love to hear about that and what positive productivity means to you.

KRISTEN:  So yeah, gratitude is huge for me and that’s how I get my positivity. People on Facebook when I’m talking, I tend to put positive posts out. I believe that the more po–, you know, I, I do.  I say I’m not really a love attraction person, but at the same time, I believe that if you are positive about what’s going on, then you feel positive about it. So if you can find the positive in everything, I’m always looking for the positive side of everything. Whenever there’s a problem or a failure or whatever, I’m always looking for the learning. What did I learn from this? What can I take from this? How can I do better next time? More than wallowing in it. I don’t like wallow. I was a musical theater singer, actress in New York for about six years, and during that time I learned very quickly – go into an audition. You do an audition at the end of the audition, you may not get the job, so you have to quickly turn around and go, “OK, what’s next?” Instead of sitting in and  “Ah, they aren’t going to call me, I don’t know”, you know, instead of worrying about it and wondering about it, it was:  “I had to learn to.. – what’s next, what’s next, where am I going next?”,  “Oh, I didn’t get that job.  Well, I’ve got another one going, let’s go to this audition today”. You know, looking for more of where I can go to make a positive impact instead of wallowing in the things that aren’t going so well. That’s kind of how that works for me. And then when it comes to productivity, it’s the same thing. It’s: “Oh, that didn’t work. OK, so what’s next?” You know, it’s: “Oh that didn’t go well. So what’s next?” And it’s looking at, you know, what’s my day going to look like, what do I want it to look like? And adjusting it, as I go. So…

KIM: I’m just over here sort of laughing to myself about the coincidences. So did you move? We’re both in Ohio Listener, so did you move to Ohio from New York or was there an interim…

KRISTEN:  I grew up in Ohio and went out to New York to pursue that and then came back.

KIM: OK, because I moved here.  I grew up in New York and then moved to Ohio.

KRISTEN:  Oh, that’s crazy (laugh)

KIM: Yeah, I moved here from Westchester where I was actually a designer in New York City in an interior designer, so a lot of the same thing. I mean clients wouldn’t like what I put together. I mean even in college, you know, you work on my model and then you go into class and the professor takes some exact show through and it’s all a scrap and you have to go start all over again.

KRISTEN:  Right.

KIM: But at the end of the day you learned something and you just have to keep on going forward. I just said to ask, were you in New York in 9-11?

KRISTEN:  I – we lived in Jersey and I commuted into New York and we were – I was in Jersey on 9-11 in Monmouth County its where I used to live and yeah, I was supposed to be in New York that day and I chose to skip the audition and go the second day, which would’ve been the date the 12th.

KIM: Wow! Yeah, that’s when I was. I was living there too. I moved to Ohio in 2004. I was about a half block from the UN, but I mean everything even that was a learning experience.

KRISTEN: Going into New York for the few days afterwards was a learning experience as well. Because every day you went in, and something was happening, and you had to listen to the news, and listen to the radio on the way in on the train, and didn’t know what was going to be blocked, and what wasn’t going to be blocked and what was happening that day, you know, but it was all about – for me, and this is where the positivity comes in. You know, when that happened, my husband was like: “Should we be heading back to Ohio now?” (laugh) And I’m sitting there looking at him going: “I’m scared too.” I get it, but my statement to him was; “No terrorist is going to take my dream away.”

KIM: Wow! Yeah. My mom actually called because, I had just graduated college, and my mom called, and was yelling at me to move back upstate New York  and to work at McDonald’s because she didn’t want me in the city anymore.

KRISTEN:   Right.

KIM: Yeah. But the same – the same there too. I mean, and it turned into a great thing in the city of New York and I mean that’s just the view I had at that point and I was also young, but so many volunteer opportunities came out of it..

KRISTEN: -and many people from Jersey banded together, you know, as the same deal there. And we had a lot of positive reaction happen in Jersey, you know, and same thing after there. I wasn’t there, but the hurricane that came through and, you know, all the flooding, sandy from flooding, and everything. I talked to friends that were back in Jersey, and the same thing happened.  Then everybody pulled together. Everybody helped each other. I sent boxes of school supplies from here out to the schools there, so that they would have school supplies, and things like that because they all got – waterlogged and wet, completely unusable. So, and that’s, you know, that’s the thing is I would rather look at that, you know, I’d rather look at – What it’s going to happen in the aftermath? How are we going to clean up? Who are going to be? How are we going to band together? What are we going to create – together? Because of this..

KIM: Don’t you think that it’s sort of. It could be taken to everything that’s going on in America and worldwide right now. I mean the week that we’re recording this is just an aftermath of disaster – after disaster – after disaster, like worldwide and I’m hoping that there will be listeners to listen to this, you know, years to follow.

But like we’re just following all the – police shootings and a lot of ISIS terrorist attacks. But I do see even with all the violence, there’s a lot of people coming together and trying to work on a positive outcome.

KRISTEN: I do believe that no matter how bad it is and no matter how horrible it is, there’s a reason for it and there’s something to be gained from it. And I also feel like there’s – there’s a balance that happens and these things balance us out so we get so cocky at some point, you know that things are all good and wonderful and there’s always a CHECK of, OK, so, – Where are we? And these are checks, these are check in, – What do we need to adjust? – What do we need to look for? – Where do we need to change? And it’s a way of looking at that and I don’t know what power does that, but whatever it is, it’s a way for us to check in and see what can we do better?  How can we be better? What are we missing? And you’re like, that’s what these things were before.

KIM: Yeah, and I feel like that’s an awesome segue into, you know, what we, what we probably intended to talk about today, but like the checks and balance and not getting down about the outcomes that aren’t as positive. I don’t want to say negative outcomes, outcomes that aren’t as positive, especially when are in relation to marketing and everything for either our projects or our clients. So a big part of the coaching work you do. Sorry, I’m reading this directly off. She is helping your clients find balance with marketing, so how – I’d love for you to discuss that with like pulling in what we’ve just talked about.

KRISTEN: Yeah, I think that there – what I see is a combination. There comes a point in marketing the business that we hit that overwhelm wall and it’s a big overwhelm wall.  It’s like I just can’t do it anymore. There’s too much going on and that’s the check. That’s the check in, when you hit that big wall of there’s just so much going on. I can’t keep up. Everything’s falling aside and I, I don’t know what to do. That’s the point of check in –  to check in and see – where are you doing too much? Were you going too far? How are you? Is there some way you can whittle things down? I mean you have to have balance. We have not only our businesses, but we have our lives, you know, and there’s priorities. We have children, we have spouses, we have family, we have parents, we have, you know, all these other priorities. People in our lives. There’s other obligations if you’re on boards for other organizations and things like that. We have responsibilities outside of our business. Within our business, we also have lots of varied responsibilities. There’s clients, there’s marketing there is running the business. All these things play a part. What happens so much is that – the marketing gets out of control. It’s something that we add a little bit on all the time. We’re like doing this, and then we add something on it, and then we add something on, and we add something, and we think that we have to constantly be building on, and doing more so we keep doing more, and more, and more, and more, and more, and we can get to the breaking point of beyond not being able to do at all. It goes beyond the point of – this is how much I can handle or not looking at it. So, we get to – we hit the wall and now we have to check in and go: “OK, I’ve got to fix this.  This cannot happen.” And it starts bleeding. Marketing starts with bleeding into her weekends and starts bleeding into our evenings or getting up early. We were supposed to go running, but instead of going running, we sit down at the computer and we do our marketing. This is where it gets out of hand, and you’ve got to check in, and readjust, and pull things away, and come back to some sort of balance of: “This is how much time I want to really spend my marketing because, I have all these other things around it that I need to get my attention to.”

KIM: That’s so big because, I’m seeing that trend right now. You know, people are on facebook, they’re on twitter, linkedin, Google, pinterest, instagram, snapchat, facebook live, periscope, like how much is – too much? Like personally I would rather stick to two or three tops and even even three, I feel like it’s to be too much.

Nevermind your blog and your podcast, you know, that’s a completely different. I mean, it’s so marketing that that’s like a full time job in itself.

KRISTEN: Everyone of these things requires consistent action at requires you to be doing something with it all the time. It’s not something you’re going to do it right. You need to be doing it regularly, consistently, and when we keep adding more and more things that we have to do consistently, it just keeps adding up and taking more and more and more and more time

KIM: -and I think that people think that just because they’re out there more that they’re going to make more. But with even I forget sometimes that just because, I’m out there more than I am, I’m taking that time away that I can be using to make money because just because it doesn’t mean I’m going to make money.

KRISTEN: That’s right. But if you do choose wisely and you focus on things that are first of all, and this is what I focused on with my clients, is they have to be things that really feed who you are and they don’t drain your energy. So if you’re focused only on the things that feed your energy, you’re going to be more apt to do it regularly, you’re also going to be more apt to do it fully. And if you’re fully into even one marketing strategy you can be making money. It really just takes full attention and energy and if it’s feeding you then that’s going to bring in the clients. There’s a limit to what we could do. I mean even I’m, I’m looking at. I’ve been getting out there. Speaking of getting out there – 2014, I had set a goal to speak at a coach conference, a specific coach around France and I knew it was coming up in 2016.

So I spent all last year working on getting that gig and I had the whole time I was thinking about it the whole time. I’m working on working towards that. So my entire focus for the year was speaking, speaking, speaking, speaking. And that’s all I focused on. I still did my newsletter and I still did facebook, a little bit of twitter and Linkedin, but for the most part I was working on: “Where can I apply for another RFP? Where can I get more podcasts talking? Where can I get more interviews and keep practicing? Where can I speak and practice different things.” That was my whole year. Last year I got that speaking gig, Yay and..

KIM: Yay.

KRISTEN: Yay.. Now I’m looking at, OK, now that I had that speaking Gig, they’re going to be more coming up. How much do I really want to do that? Do I want to travel?  Do I wanna stay virtual? How much is that? You know, I can still say visible and I can still get my stuff out there through speaking, but how much do I really want to be doing it? and I got an email last week actually from a group that wants to. There was somebody there who saw my presentation at the conference and they’re like, oh, we want to bring you in to do it here. And it means traveling. And I had to really look at that and I, I like did not answer right away and I’m normally a answer it right now and get it off my plate kind of person – talking about productivity and doing now or it won’t get done. But I was just like: “No, I have to stop. I have to breathe, I have to think about this.” – Do I want to travel at that time of year?  – Is that going to conflict with other things I have going on at home? – What’s happening, you know, with my husband had to check in with him and say:  “OK, what are we planning for that part of the year? Is it OK if I go away for a few days” and look at what do we have going on around that? We have thanksgiving coming up after it. We have Christmas coming up after that, you know, do I have the time to take away. So many things and I spent four days just letting it sit and ruminate and think and feel into it to see, is this right for me? Is this what I want to do before responding – “Yes. This is something that I want to do” but I had to go through that and so much of what I see going on out there is that we’re not taking that time. It’s just jumped. “Oh, somebody says, I should do this. I’m going to go” , “Oh, I got this opportunity. I’m going to go” – without thinking about the ramifications.

KIM:  -and then the burned-out comes when you suddenly realized you jus booked herself for eighty to a hundred and 20 hours a week.

KRISTEN: Exactly, and that’s. That’s the wall. That’s the big overwhelm wall and if you’re not stopping and looking at the balance, if you’re not looking at your priorities, if you’re not looking at what’s matching you, it’s exactly where you’re going to land up and it kills me, kills me, kills me to watch my clients come in and they come into me at this point and I’m just like: “Oh, I’m so sorry because, it doesn’t have to be that way and you can start at the very beginning.” I prevent that..

KIM: So I need to retract what I said earlier about maybe doing a facebook live because I think we can certainly do another episode in person on podcast because that was my own attempt at going into a marketing method that I’m not really comfortable with that isn’t in sync with what I do.

Yes, I do feel that people need to get out there, but that’s not necessarily the way that I’m most comfortable with and I feel, and you’ve probably seen this with your clients, that they see that everybody else is doing it, so they feel that they need to jump in too..

KRISTEN: Yup, every day.

KIM: Yeah. No!

KRISTEN: Nope, nope, nope, nope. You don’t need to jump in if it’s not for you. And that’s the thing is you got to know – – what is for you and it wasn’t for you. You got to know – what’s the right choice for you and what’s going to work for you. And if you’re not judging it on that, if you’re just jumping in. And then the reason I got into this coaching work with it and the consulting piece is because I was a virtual assistant and I had a team of virtual assistants working with me and we were doing all the work for coaches and they kept coming to me and saying: “OK, let’s do this!” And I would say: “Why?” And they would say: “Because, so and so told me to.” And I’d be like: “that’s not a good enough answer.” And they’re like: “but, that’s the answer I have. I’m going to do it.” and as a virtual assistant. I didn’t feel like I had the power to say: “No! don’t do that.” And at the time I didn’t have a process to help them find what they should be doing. So I just went ahead and did it. And what would happen every single time it would fall flat on its face. And I got tired of watching that happen. And that’s what we’re doing this work is to prevent that from happening, to look at it from behind and start. And I created the process to help people to look at What – Why are you making these decisions? What decisions would be a better decision?  How do you judge? What direction you need to go? So, now I prevent people from getting to the point where they have a VA and they’re paying them to fall flat on their face.

KIM: Yes, I love that because I mean coming from the VA side myself, I mean that’s how I started my business. I feel exactly the same way. Like SBA started to feel powerless to say: “Why?” in your nose aren’t often this heard?

KRISTEN:  Yeah.

KIM: Even if you don’t have the credentials to say, I mean there’s coaches out there who who don’t have ICF or or whatever credentials, but you can still position yourself to give your expertise, expert knowledge and say “NO” to people so that it does prevent them from falling in. And I don’t like saying – I told you so but- (laugh)

KRISTEN: (laugh) -And I did. I said that a couple times to view clients. They’re like: “Look, I pay you to do what I tell you to do.  And I’m like: “OK” and that was my sign date out. Cause I was like, I don’t want to be paid to be told what to do, I want to help people figure out what’s going to work for them.

KIM: Right! Is this a team or am I your employee right now?

KRISTEN: And in the virtual assistant world, you know, that’s, that’s what they were paying me for. That’s what we’d hired on for. That was the relationship we created and I was trying, I wanted to change it and because I hadn’t set it up that way, I couldn’t do it and for me it just made most sense to just drop that part of the business and Jessica into the coaching consulting part and be able to focus in on this place of you know, what’s going to work for you? and how can we find that? And I have had so much more fun doing that than I ever did doing virtual assistant work. (laugh)

KIM: Yes. But I had to ask though, like if you think more people should look at their Va’s as a team member rather than an employee, but-

KRISTEN: I think they definitely should. I think it depends on your virtual assistant though. There are some virtual assistants who have a breadth of knowledge and can share so much information with you, and give you options for you to choose from, and give their opinion on what will work. There are some virtual assistants who really are good at doing the work but, don’t really know anything else, so it depends on which virtual is a kind of virtual assistant you have..

KIM: I agree..

KRISTEN: -and how we know and what their knowledge base is and how much experience they have as to whether they can actually chime in, but I think that there can be more leaning in for their opinion. “Do you think I should go this direction?” instead of saying: “we need to go this direction”  I think anybody who has a virtual assistant should always be checking in. “What are your thoughts on this?” before actually having them do it? Because if the VA knows it’s not going to work and they tell you: “It’s not going to work” and you don’t listen and then it doesn’t work, you’re going to blame the VA

KIM: yeah..

KRISTEN: It’s not the VA’s fault, if the VA knows it’s not going to work, but if you don’t ask them, many of them don’t feel like they can speak up because they don’t feel like they’re going to be heard, so if you create an environment where your VA is heard, they know that they can be heard, and they know they can speak up, and share their opinion, you will actually spend a heck of a lot less with them, and you will be much more successful with them.

KIM: I completely agree. I love all that! The same goes for team wide from the copywriter to the graphic designer.  I mean straight across the board. Even your web developer, if you. I’m just going to use wordpress. You say that you want the plugin installed. I mean even just asking them their opinion, maybe they even have a better one that they could recommend..

KRISTEN:  -and usually they do..

KIM: yeah! usually. Maybe when I was so right.

KRISTEN: Usually they do have a better opinion and better idea of what’s out there, and that’s the thing is especially in like the coaching, healing, that kind of world. The people who are in, and this is what I know from the work that I’ve been doing the last four years. The people who are in those industries aren’t very. They aren’t very always knowledgeable on marketing and marketing technologies. They don’t always know what the best thing to do. They know they don’t know what they don’t know and they rely on other people to tell them and there’s so many opinions out there, the best person to ask as the person who has their hands in your stuff..

KIM: Right!

KRISTEN: Versus the person who’s out there saying: “This is what it is to do.”  The best person to ask is the one who’s working with it. The one who’s seeing what’s working, what’s not. The one who’s actually got their hands in the nitty-gritty of it and can go back and look at your open rates and they can go back and look at your visits to the website and they could go back and look at your analytics and actually tell you: “You know, this is what worked last time. Maybe we should just stick to that.”

KIM: I agree! yeah, and I think having that person is so critical and not trying to do it all yourself.

KRISTEN:  Well, I agree. And I also think that there’s a point in time when you need to do it yourself. I think in the beginning you have to do it yourself because you have to learn what the basics are. Know you have to learn the basics of the technology so you understand how it works.  And you can ask people to do work for you. You have to understand what the strategy is, so that you understand how it’s supposed to be executed so, you can ask somebody to execute it. You need to do it yourself in the beginning, especially so that you have an idea of what works for you and what doesn’t work for you. So you can experiment so you can play with it. And so you can figure out what part of it is the part that you liked. The part you don’t like, the part that you want to work with, the part that works well for you, the part that gets you to clients for you and the parts that don’t. So you know what to pass off, that – that exploration in the beginning is crucial to understanding the foundation of your marketing health, of your business, for the rest of the growth of your business..

KIM: What is something that you see being delegated that really shouldn’t be like? Have you? Have you noticed a trend that people are delegating? Anything specific in this? Could be a no answer.

KRISTEN: Yeah. I think just about anything can be delegated except for initial posts on your personal facebook profile, twitter profile. I think your personal stuff needs to come from you. I think responses need to come from you. I think the articles and things that you write for your newsletter and stuff like that, they can be done by a ghostwriter, but you have to be on a conversation with that ghostwriter for them to take notes so that they can take your words and they can make it into something. I think that your copy is the same way. It has to be you initiating with a conversation and somebody taking notes and then forming that into copy. Your words have to be in your marketing.  If your words are not there. If your personality is not there, you will not get clients.

KIM: I completely agree like you can’t have some – a copywriter write your – about page and have it sound like it’s coming from a completely different person because the second you get on a phone with a potential client you’re gonna realize this is not who I was reading..

KRISTEN: -then and that’s part of the trust-building and that’s the trust-building and marketing expert for this reason because this is the kind of stuff I talk about is where you building trust, where you’re breaking trust from the very beginning and when your words and your personality are not in your marketing moment, they get on the phone with you, you’ve got an immediate trust break and they’re not going to hire you. It’s just not going to happen. They have to get the person on the phone that’s coming through in the marketing, so you have to be present in it.  You cannot just completely pass it off.

KIM: I so agree. Now I’ve got a question for you. Business cards, yes or no?

KRISTEN: Depends. I don’t have yes, no answers. Um, there’s always the, it depends cause anything can work for anybody. Business cards, I think if you are actually meeting people in person, then yes, you need business cards. If you are completely virtual, there’s no need for a business card. there’s a need for at least a business card website, but there is no need for an actual business card if you’re not physically meeting people and going to be able to pass it off to them anyway.

KIM: So I would agree with that fully. But there are times when I’m out and just I am an introvert but I could start talking randomly to people and then they want to know how they can reach me. So while I do get, I mean you’re probably the first person I’ve spoken with or one of the first sets within a 30 mile radius in the past four years regarding business.  Right? I mean even though I’ve done a couple of networking groups, but the benefit of being able to reach into my pocket or my purse, my wallet, whatever, and grab a business card. I mean it, it’s, it has been beneficial. So or just telling them the texts the number, texts too close we could just do that now.

KRISTEN: Yeah, we can do.  There’s a lot of that now. Let’s see. No, that’s. That’s part of your process, part of your processes to have a conversation with people sometimes randomly and you know you’re going to need that. Not everybody does that, so it really depends on how you work in the world. Do you work in a way that you’re going to randomly run into people and have a conversation and “Oh hey, let me give you my business card.” I have business cards because I go networking.  I have business cards because I go to conferences, I have business cards because I randomly run into people too and have conversations and want them at that moment, so I think most people probably do need them, but yeah, I think there are some people who don’t actually need them.

KIM: I’m not going to argue that at all, (laugh)

KRISTEN: (laugh) but again, it’s, it’s up to you. It’s how do you work, how do you work in the world of marketing? Do you work in a way where you’re going to need that or not? That’s the question.

KIM: Right! Now that I think about it. Actually my business cards are outdated like three years old because that’s how. That’s how often I go through them. I mean the, the likelihood of me having to take one out and then given month islam, but. So I have one last question for you because I do try to keep these commutable.  What would you say are the two to three, and I noticed various per person and per client or industry, but are there any two to three marketing assets that you think each person should have?

KRISTEN: -and define marketing assets?

KIM: -well, blog, email lists, social media profile? Yeah..

KRISTEN: I think you most definitely have to have a website. You can go without a website these days. I think you have to have a presence on one social media network and be building that network and have a good following on it. On one no more than one. I have more if you want them, but I don’t think you need more than one and I think the other marketing asset that you have to have is a solid differentiated way of talking about your business. To say: “This is what I do, and this is how I’m different than other people who do it.”

KIM: Can you clarify that a little bit? Like, well, what would you say falls into that was.

KRISTEN: Let me just put it this way. If somebody were to ask you: “What do you do?” The answer needs to be something that doesn’t sound like every other person in your industry.

KIM: So your unique selling proposition?

KRISTEN: Yes! In more so than that. It needs to be something that’s unique to you and defines your personality for them..

KIM: So its part of the cuffs, but I had no other way to say it, but like your kick-ass elevator pitch which really drives you apart from anybody else..

KRISTEN:  It doesn’t even have to be 1:30 second pitch. You need to know what it is. You can speak from that and you can speak from it confidently and be able to express who you are through it.

KIM: Yeah! I love it.

KRISTEN: I don’t like memorization of elevator speeches. It has to come from different place.

KIM: Neither do I and I couldn’t even. It’s so horrible. I can’t even tell you the tagline for one of my sites right now just because like it’s not. I haven’t because I was told I needed. It isn’t that bad, but there’s another example, right? I have it because I was told I should, but that’s not what I’m going to tell people..

KRISTEN: -and that’s. yeah, exactly, and that’s, that’s the way it’s not even worth it to go through. Right.

KIM: Right?

KRISTEN:Ha.. Quit spending your money in places that you think you have to do but don’t work for you.

KIM: I love that. Can you repeat that one more time so people can write it down?

KRISTEN: Quit spending your money in places where people tell you have to do it. Don’t work for you.

KIM: There you go. Where can our listeners find out more about you and get in touch.

KRISTEN:   CoachesMarketingSource.com.

KIM: Thank you so much. There will be show notes on this. Kristen, this has been so valuable. Thank you so much for being here.

KRISTEN: Thank you so much.