PP 220: Roger Ramsukh, Therapist, Author and Speaker, and Owner of 2nd Authentic Life

Even if you’re doing what you think you should and it brings you joy, sometimes life gives you a nudge in the right direction.

Roger had a history of losing his job, when, after one final job loss, his wife suggested it was a sign from God to discover and pursue his life Purpose.

Roger and I share discuss how money shouldn’t determine our path, how neither of us feel as though we’ve grown up, our love for entrepreneurship despite our family history, and much more!

.@r3gemini & @thekimsutton discuss life's #purpose, #entrepreneurship & more: http://www.thekimsutton.com/pp220Click To Tweet

Episode Transcription

KIM: Welcome back to another episode of Positive Productivity. This is your host Kim Sutton and I am thrilled that you are here listening with us today. And I’m also thrilled to introduce our guest of the day, Roger Ramsukh. Roger is a therapist, author, and speaker and the owner of 2nd Authentic Life. Roger, welcome, I’m so thrilled that you’re here with us today.

ROGER: So happy to be on your show Kim, absolutely a huge fan.

KIM: It just occurred to me Roger that I don’t think I say thrilled in my everyday life, like, ever. Every single episode. I’ve been listening to a few episodes lately, and it’s just become my thing at the beginning thrilled, and thrilled, and thrilled. I mean, I really am thrilled but really. Thank you so much for joining us. Roger can you share your background with the listeners and a little bit about who you are and what you do today.

ROGER: Sure yeah. I’m a coach. I’m a therapist. I’m an author. I’m a speaker. I started my career working with kids and adults with developmental delays, and autism spectrum disorder, and a number of cognitive delays. And spent I’d say almost 20 years actually working with challenging behaviour with different people. And connecting with their parents. And it was kind of organic process whereby I realize that, in order to help the kids, I needed to help the parents. And so, I started doing presentations to parents, and then from that I had a job. Going around to hospitals and teaching hospital staff how to de-escalate, and verbally handle more challenging behaviors. And then that became teachers and schools. And then that became staff and group homes. So, I cut my teeth working with challenging behaviors for a very very long time. And all those things were from the job route and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Don’t get me wrong. I love speaking with people but there’s always that part of me that didn’t like working for somebody else. And I’ve been fired from a job, a number of times, for various reasons and some of which had to do with my reluctance to be there. And other times, had to do with just, you know, life happening sometimes. But I really — I asked myself one time, I guess the last time that I had a job was, you know, why does this keep happening to me? Why is it that, you know, I hear these philosophies from people smarter and wiser than I am, that you know, just give give give and it will come back to you. And I was working in a school and just give give giving, and still even with a union, and with everything else, I still got fired from the job. And I was like how? How is it that, you know, I still got fired from a job that’s almost unfireable to get fired from? And I told my my spouse that night about it. And she kind of confirms something that I was thinking earlier in the day. And that is quite simple and profound when she said: “Maybe this is God just telling you, one more time, that you need to be doing your own thing and doing it in a small classroom is not the best use of your time.” As your dhalwa says from our conversation with God, this is not the highest and best expression of yourself. And so –

KIM: Roger, have you heard me? I’m sorry to interrupt.

ROGER: – Yeah, yeah for sure

KIM: Have you heard me tell the story about my husband who kept on losing his job too?

ROGER: I haven’t actually.

KIM: He kept on losing his job, I think he lost it maybe seven times, in the first two or three years we are together. It was always a contract position.

ROGER: Yeah

KIM:  But he actually got hired on full time by a union company to do a dayshift job. And the next day he got to work. And was told he was fired because — Well he was let go because there was somebody else in the Union who wanted his position.

ROGER: Oh wow.

KIM: Within one day of getting hired he was gone. But within — The week after we got married he lost his job for the last time. And that was exactly what I said to him. I said: “This is God telling you that it’s time to pursue your dreams”. Because he had always wanted to be a videogame developer. I’m saying: “Look this is your time, so go do it.” I love that your wife said that.

ROGER: Yeah she’s wiser than I am in a lot of ways, so. But I kind of — I came to, I think a similar conclusion to, would you and your husband came to me and that. You know, if you’re not — even when you were doing what you should be doing, and you think it brings you joy if it’s not truly what you should be doing. I think life kind of gives you a nudge to say: “You know what, dummy, you need to go and do this thing because if I quit the dream in you. You need to do something worth it. I’m not gonna put it in you just for nothing, you know. And I’ve always said if God’s gonna bring you to it then God’s gonna bring you through it. So, this last time with my job, I just said: “ I need to be doing that thing, that serving that way that I’ve, I think I need to be serving, and reaching people, and reaching an appreciative audience, that maybe resonates with what I believe and what I feel and how I conduct myself. Maybe not in a school system. I don’t know what your experience has been in the school system, but there not the most positive people, I have to say. And in Canada, teachers are paid very very well, and I’m not saying that money isn’t earned or deserved. But I’m just saying that, if I made the kind of money in my day job, working for the school board, cause I was just  MBA while I was an assistant to the teacher. If I made the money they made, I don’t know, I think I would have a lot more content with the role that I was placed in. But, you know, maybe that was God being wise guidance saying: “You don’t you don’t get that. You’ve got to do something much grander, possibly.”

KIM: But money doesn’t always buy happiness.

ROGER: No

KIM:  Money rarely buys happiness.

ROGER: No, you are so right. Yeah

KIM: Actually the job I was fired from was designing schools 2010, till like –

ROGER: Wow

KIM: – but, and I find it — you and I are going to have to connect a lot more after we get down here.

ROGER: I’m telling them the more I listen to you. The more I’m like, wow, this would be, this woman would be a friend of mine, if she lived next door to me, like, I’d be over at her house and she’d be over at my house, all the time. Yeah.

KIM: Yeah

ROGER: Honestly

KIM: Great, entrepreneurial life group

ROGER: Yeah, there you go. Yeah

KIM: You know, yeah. Listener’s, there may be a virtual one starting soon. Anyway, so, I was designing — I was designing schools but I really didn’t like the job and I was paid decent. I’ll just put it that way.

ROGER: Yeah

KIM: But I really didn’t enjoy my job, at all. But it was also designing schools. I mean there’s only so many different styles of desks that you can choose from. I don’t have, you know, I haven’t been paying off student loans for as many years as I have. No offense to interior designers who are listening to design schools.

ROGER: Yeah.

KIM: I went to school to do more than primary colors. Let’s just put it that way. So, yeah. So I lost my job doing that. But I do understand because they have in — around here in Ohio too.

They do make a decent amount of money, and they have the benefits that as long as they stay, and they if they get their tenure. Then there are those benefits. However, as we grow older, we often realize that that’s just not our dream as a child isn’t necessarily what we want to be doing as we grow up. –

ROGER: I know.

KIM: – And I still don’t think I’m grown up, quite honestly.

ROGER: No. Oh my gosh you were — You and I. That was kind of set in the same way. And it was kind of, out of that kind of thinking that I named this company 2nd Authentic Life because there’s that thing that you do when you get out of school. And maybe you plan to do that because of your education. Maybe you fell into it because your brother-in-law got you your position. Or maybe you just put out a bunch of resumes, and one called you in, and you’re like: “Damn, I’ll take the job”. Because nobody else is calling. But at some point, I think it happens for a lot of people. I’ll only go so far as to say, I think it happens for most people. When at some point in their life they wake up in the middle of the night, one night, and say: “Is this how — is this what I pictured for my 20 something year old self that I would be doing at the age of 40 something? Or is this what my 15 or 12 year old self thought I’ll be doing as an adult?” You know, and I think a lot of times people are like: “No this is not what I want to be doing.” And there are some people that are absolutely freakin courageous, that I admire, that will leave that job, consciously. And then go and pursue their passion and dreams even though it could be a very high paying job. And they’ve got bills, and commitments, and people depending on them. And they still go and do it and I’m like: “Wow that is somebody that is courageous to a degree that I aspired to.”

And I think there are other people, like myself, who life kind of gives you that nudge and you’re like: “Okay, okay, I will just go and pursue this thing because nothing else is working for me right now”. So I always say: “I was dragged kicking and screaming into the world of entrepreneurism. And I absolutely love it.” And I know that this is where I’m supposed to be but, man, it took so much to get out of a comfort zone. And to give up pursuing a job. And that’s the way to earn a living. And to find expression in myself because, especially in our economy here in Canada, it was so damn hard to get a job to begin with. And you know, I was putting up resumes and saying, you know: “Just what do you want me to be? I will be. What you want me to do? I will do.” You know: “Just give me a chance.” You know, I have a recruiter said: “Well, can you be an average woman with a one leg?” And I was like: “Damn, I can’t do that.”

But in the end it’s me going on this journey, and giving others guidance to follow in whatever way it moves their spirit to do so. You know what I mean? There’s not a — there’s not any program that says, including mine, there’s no program that says: “You have to leave your job and go do this”. No, there’s a process and there’s thinking, and there is getting in touch with yourself. And you know, the key to everything, in the end of all, is your thinking right about it whether starting business. Or whether it’s, you know, painting a painting. You know, there’s the vision in your ci — in your mind. And there’s the resources you have available to, and all those things get put together before anything in the physical world gets expressed. And so, that’s just kind of how I’ve been coaching people to approach starting a business. And this is how I’ve been doing my own start, just from the mindset first. Picture out — picture and visualize, what is it that I want? And how do I want it to look like? And then go for it. As opposed to letting life happen to me because up until now I gotta say, to my chagrin, is that I think a lot of times about how life happened to me. Rather than creating or taking steps to create what I want. I mean, no matter how much planning you do there’s going to be that element that you just cannot prepare for. I mean you accept that you go with the flow but there is — Einstein says, one of the most fundamental questions you can ask yourself is: “Do you believe in hell than any other friend in the universe?” And what that comes down to is do you believe that stuff happens to you because you were born on a bad sign? Or do you believe that you can actually create your life? And you believe you can actually create success, and you can create joy. You can create a set of circumstances that actually fulfills you. As opposed to just these the cards I was dealt with. This is how it’s going to be for me.

KIM: Roger what’s the most inspiring book you’ve ever read? Besides the Bible.

ROGER: I think, by far, the most inspiring work was a Neale Donald Walsch, Conversations with God. And in it, kind of, this philosophy of, you know, God finds joy in you doing what brings the highest and best expression to you. And if you want to — If you want to lay on the couch and eat Cheetos, well fine. Then lay on the couch and eat Cheetos. And if you want to go and create the next Apple, then go and create the next Apple. Well, whatever it is, God experiences those things through you and God wants for you what you want for you. So if you want to create something, it isn’t God saying: “No, you can’t have that because that’s not in the cards for you.” No, you are the creator of your own life. And you can choose to experience anything. How you choose experience it, right? And you know, it’s almost sounds like a cliche now to say: “It’s not what happens to you. It’s how you deal with it.” You know, and everybody can — I know so many people, including myself, at times I’m going through it, roll my eyes and say: “No, sometimes it is what happens because sometimes what happens to you absolutely sucks”. You know, one of the times I got fired from my job I had literally the month before they foreclosed the house. And it was my first house that I own that I was going to live in. And so here I was in this house that had nothing except one couch, and a bed upstairs, and a half-full refrigerator. And I didn’t have a job to support it anymore. And until — That was a day when nobody had better come to me and say: “It’s not what happens to you Roger. It’s how you process it. It’s how you deal with it. It was like, when you’re going through some stuff sometimes that is – that is a tough pill to swallow but in the end that is the essence of life. Everything that negative that happens to you somebody has gone through it. And in — Put a different spin on it. I wouldn’t say they enjoyed it but they said: “What am I — Who am I going to be in the face of this challenge? And they deal with it much better than somebody else does, so..

KIM: With everything that we’ve gone through in our family, I mean, we’ve had our utilities disconnected more times than I can count. My husband has always reminded me that, I mean, just not even a year before we met, he was homeless living out of his car in the middle of winter in Fargo, North Dakota.

ROGER: Wow. Sounds like a movie.

KIM: Yeah. And he’s like you know we’re not there. Something will happen. Something will come through but that’s not it. And we haven’t gotten this far to have that happen. So we just had to have faith

ROGER: Yeah.

KIM: I just — I have had awaken the giant within, the power within.

ROGER: Yes

KIM: Which one is it?

ROGER: Awaken The Power Within –

KIM: Tony Robbins.

ROGER: – Tony Robbins

KIM: Yes, I have had that on my shelf for no fewer than, let me think, 8 years and I finally just started reading it this past week. And the — he’s talking about — And I think it’s really interesting cause you and I were even talking about it in our pre-chat about how everything that we do in life is either – is based on pain or pleasure.

ROGER: Yeah

KIM: Are we are we running from pain or are we running towards pleasure, basically? And, or are we trying to avoid pain? And that’s — The more he’s talking about it, I’m just like: “Wow”. I’ve realized that I’m putting things off, that I have, and projects and books that I’ve even discussed here on the podcast just because of the chance of pain of a rejection.

Listeners, just you know, Roger and I pre-chatted, was talking about how fearless I am and I opened up and I said: “Oh no. I am actually full of fear. However, I know if I want things to change, that I need to keep on pushing forward.” And I live probably 50 percent of my day outside of my comfort zone.

We are just coming out of Thanksgiving 2017. We came here in America and I sent out no fewer than 8 emails to my list. And it was painful because I don’t ever do that. I mean it’s, it’s painful for me, just send one email to my list but I sent 8. But, Roger, as I was sharing with you, I knew that my message needs to be spread. There’s — I mean I need — There’s somebody out there who needs to hear what I’m trying to share. And if I just keep it inside then I’m not going to help the people I’m supposed to be helping. Sort of like, how you said: “God gives us dreams and so that we got to act on it.”

ROGER: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

KIM: And really were talking to, I was thinking about, you know, it’s not just looking at ourselves as 20 year olds or 15 year olds. Do I want to tell my kids, like, if I were living in a corporate job that I absolutely detest it. What I want to look at my kids and tell them this is what you’re going to be doing in 20, 30 years? Absolutely not.

ROGER: Yeah. That is actually a question that I get a lot from parents because, I’m kind of my, one of my key demographics is parents. And you know, they always say, you know: “What do I tell my child about how to prepare for in the future?” And you know, one of them — one of my thoughts about that is that, you right now, we cannot even invision, what kind of jobs? And what kind of location we’ll be needed in the future? Were at such a turning point in transition period in industry, and in life, and in history. That, you know, these rapid far changes are really getting faster. And we can’t even – we can’t even envision, you know, this is what you’re gonna — this is the job future for you. I mean, there should be broad categories like technology or, you know, communications or coding or something like that. You know, those are those broad things there but how those are going to look in the future. We can’t even imagine right now. And that level of uncertainty is fearful, is scary, for a parent, you know, to wives or kids. And so, all you can do, in my opinion, is to give them as broad, base knowledge as you can. And then expose them to as much as you can. This is one things I do with my niece and my nephews. I’m trying to give them as many experiences in different things as I can. So that they figure themselves out of what they want to do. And so that they can then be prepared for whatever comes up in the future. They can say: “I have some exposure to the arts. I have some exposure to creativity. I have some exposure to technology. I have some exposure to working with people. I have some exposure to understanding mechanics or something like that. You know, and then — and they can figure themselves up from there because they’re gonna have to learn to shift on a dime into Morell’s world.

KIM: You just scared me a little bit Roger –

ROGER: Yeah

KIM: – because I was thinking about the fact that when my husband went to school 2 or 3 years ago, four years ago, let me think, 2012 to 2015. He went to college and got his his 4 year degree online

ROGER: Yeah

KIM: And I have a 15 year old who may or may not go to college in three years. However, many years. And I say that because it’s gonna be tally up for him. After going to college myself, and having all these student loans for a degree that I don’t ever want to use. I’m not going to push college on my kids throughout. But then I started thinking about my almost 3 year old twins and my 4 year old when it comes time for them to go to college. They could very well be staying at home and going to college. I’m looking forward to quiet.

ROGER: Absolutely

KIM: It was gonna be happening by that time. They could be 40 and living in our basement because people don’t need to go anywhere, anymore, to get their degree. I mean they don’t need to go anywhere to get a degree or to work. I mean, we already go grocery shopping. I mean, technically we could do – we could live out of our houses. And that’s — It’s awesome but it’s sad at the same time. I mean, I could –

ROGER: Yes –

KIM: – I could live my whole life without ever leaving my house.

ROGER: – Yeah, it’s never been easier than now to become agrow phobic and just not venture outside the safe four walls of your home cause you can do just about everything. Where everything get sends to you.

KIM: Oh yeah

ROGER: You know

KIM: Yeah, I mean even here in the middle of Nowhere Ohio, I can have the local grocery store deliver that same day –

ROGER: Yeah

KIM: – every, all the groceries I need. Roger, can you tell us more about 2nd Authentic Life and what you do?

ROGER: Oh yes, for sure. That is my newest project. And it’s been going on for a while now but it’s — The essence of it is that I work with, you know, parents who are small business owners and some small business owners, in general, who are looking to define themselves better. Or are looking to start a career. Looking for that second career as I say 2nd Authentic Life. And I help them. I coach them. I guide them to – how to find their passion, find their joy, find that authentic part of them. That they can be parlayed into something that they will actually enjoy as opposed to just doing something because it makes money. And then figuring out how to communicate that to their kids. And to their spouse or partner if they’re not involved in business. In a way that engages everybody because one of the great ironies of entrepreneurism is that, you know, the very people you work so hard for, your family, your spouse, or maybe even your extended family. Those are the very people sometimes get alienated inadvertently because you’re working so hard for success and trying to make a successful business and make money at it. And sometimes, the families, may have to make a lot of sacrifices for that dream, for that goal and sometimes they don’t even understand why. And all they do is just get resentful because they don’t see their part and they don’t see their role in it. And I speak to lot of entrepreneurs. And they’re saying it like: “Damn it. I’m doing it for them. Why don’t they understand this?” And then their business flounders as a result of that as well. And I think all of that stems from a little bit of conversation that you and I had pre-show. To say that, you know, are you doing nothing thing that brings you joy? Doing the things that is authentic to you. That was meant for you to go and do as opposed anybody else. And when you do that thing that is truly authentic to you, that truly brings you joy. That  truly resonates with you and energizes you. And gets you to those tough moments in your business. When you’re doing that, when you’re totally clear and focused about what you’re doing. Men marketing, the marketing of your business. The communication of your purpose, of your goal to your family, to your clients, to media, becomes so much easier. This is what I work on, as part of the, kind of the marketing piece. See the marketing piece grew out of the need to connect with families. And my need to help people connect to families is the part that is – that jazzes my spirit, that gets me going. I mean it’s that connection with people. I mean I live for that, I strive for that. And I try to create that with other people, so that they can create that with their families. You know, I was speaking to a franchisee a while ago. And he was telling me — He’s actually an owner of a franchise system and he said: “You know, we have manuals that we give to the franchisees on how to run business and everything in there is operationalized and systematized.” And you know, the cash register goes over here. The counter goes there. We use this supplier for this. We use that supplier for that. And the system itself is proven. He goes: “But when a business, when a franchisee fails, it’s not because of the business’ system. The business’ system is proven. It’s usually because of a breakdown in the personal life and in the family life of that franchisee.” And the part that’s missing for them, is that I speak to. Is, you know, how do you engage that family and get that portion of your business that involves them, on board, with your endeavor. And so, I’m thinking we’re going to be working future. And I might be developing or helping him develop, and revamp their manual to reflect these changes. And to put in the whole piece about, you know, engaging the family – the family life as a franchisee owner in this business.

So, in a nutshell, 2ndauthenticlife.com is your — you’re starting your second — you’re starting your business or you’re in your business which is your second life. And when you are clear, when you’re focused and you go through a program with me, a 4-step program. When you go through the 4-step program, you come up the other end, a clearly defined and clearly focused on which one to be doing. And we know how to communicate that to your family. And that makes your marketing — that makes my job from marketing besides so much easier because, men, you know exactly what you want. You know how you want it to look.

KIM: I am or I should say I was your ideal client about two years ago. The roughest times my husband and I have ever had were times when he — there was one time that he actually said to me: “I see more of the back of your head than I do to your face”. We shared an office. And he was actually at home at that point. He’s working outside of the home right now. But he shared an office with me then and he would see my, the back of my head, all day long.

ROGER: Yeah

KIM: And my kids would see the back of my head. “Mama we need you.” “One minute”. And then one minute turns into 30, turns into 40, turns into three hours, you know. And then in the meantime there’s a broken dozen eggs on the kitchen floor just because that’s where my focus was. But at the same time, I was going — I was trying to build a business I wasn’t passionate about. So, nothing was working. Absolutely nothing.

ROGER: Yeah

KIM: I mean and I wasn’t passionate in my marketing, so I wasn’t sending anything out. And yeah.

ROGER: I totally — Well two years ago I still had a job, actually. I mean, I hadn’t cluelly defined this yet even though I was doing it. I didn’t quite realize it. I hadn’t – I haven’t systematized it. Right so, I was helping people but I didn’t have a system in place on how to help them. So everybody was getting kind of a mishmash of stuff because it wasn’t a business, yet. It wasn’t a formalized coaching program, yet. But the message is the same, I mean, I think at one point you said that you burned so many meals because you were focused on doing something else. And juggling so many tasks at the same time. And when I burn stuff, I mean, I’m a very good cook if I may say so myself. But when I burn stuff, for sure, my mind wandered, and I was thinking about somebody’s business. Or I was think about my own business. And like you said sometimes 3 minutes becomes 30 just like that and you’re like: “What happened? Where’d all the time go?”

KIM: Yeah. Listeners, quite literally, on the days when my older boys are here and not at their dad’s house. If my husband is not at home, my 15 year old will say: “When do you want me to start dinner?” Because that’s how bad my cooking is. I mean, he makes meatloaf from scratch now Roger. From scratch –

ROGER: That’s awesome.

KIM:  – because I have no fear that my kids will be able to take care of themself. When they move out because they know how to do laundry. Because that’s how bad it was for a few years. Okey, let’s be honest, I still don’t do laundry cause they want, you know, if they want access to WiFi then they have to do chores. So my kitchen gets clean and my laundry gets done because kids wants, you know, allowance.

ROGER: That is fabulous. That is absolutely fabulous that you do that. You know my — the very first book that I wrote was called The Fearless Parents: 20 Ways to Inspire Success, Respect and Gratitude. And in that book I actually talked about — It’s a book for parents about parenting and in there I talked about the selective use of reinforcers in order to get compliance. And something as simple as, you know, you want WiFi, there’s dishes in the sink that has to be done. You know, or you want a meal, then you are going to do — you’re gonna come when I call you the 1st time as opposed to 3rd, 4th and 5th time, that I have to nuke at 4th time. You know, so it’s like how do you get the child to comply with you. Sometimes the first time and one of the most basic thing is exactly what you said there. Put a condition on to compliance and it’s up to them. Either you do it or you don’t, but if you’ don’t, then guess what, you’re you’re making your peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for dinner because dinner was ready two hours ago. You’re playing video games or something, you know. Or you want access to WiFi? No problem, there is laundry to do and dishes in the sink. So, that’s fabulous. I love that.

KIM: My only concern right now is with my 12 year old because last week he put a fork in the microwave. But he knows how to do the laundry –

ROGER: But

KIM: and clean the garage, so

ROGER: [Inaudible]

KIM: Yeah, he, actually. This is totally off topic, listeners, you know that. I forgot, which the previous guest told me that PTSD, in his world, actually stands for parallel tangent story disorder.

ROGER: I love it

KIM: But he — I got a neutered ninja, over the summer, thinking I was going to become a juicer, okay. Let me tell you, it was maybe used three times for juicing. But now, when he gets home from school, he’ll put ice in it. Take the morning’s coffee, pour it in. Put some creamer in, shake it up and bring me an iced coffee.

ROGER: Iced latte, yeah

KIM: So, thank you ninja, mutant ninja for my awesome shaker for my iced coffees, you know. Yeah.

ROGER: That is so great. I love that.

KIM:  I love what you’re doing though. I think that there is such a need for this and my parents both were college educated. They both went on the corporate track and they both actually wound up self-employed by the time I was in college. So, funnily enough they weren’t married to each other but are any more. But they both went that route, and while I saw from them, you know, growing up that this was the way to go. Go college. Go corporate. I quickly realized that wasn’t for me, ever. I mean and I was doing just what you said you were doing. Putting my all in. Going at it all the time but then I realized, you know, I’ve put my all in. I’ve put myself in, for 10 different promotions and I’m just tired of this. And I realized this, well I don’t think I even realize that this — I think a lot of people settle. Well, I don’t think I know, they settle for what they get. It’s not just what — Life doesn’t hand us anything but we could choose whether or not to settle with it.

Roger, I asked you earlier, what your two or what your most inspiring book was? But while I am reading Tony Robbins right now. This year, has actually been a surprisingly slow reading year for me. I think I’ve just got so preoccupied with the podcast but I read Think Better Live Better, and also, The Power of I Am both by Joel Osteen. Listeners, if you’re religious specifically if you’re Christian, I know that there’s a lot of controversy about whether or not it’s a prosperity gospel, but it’s been so incredibly inspiring to me. So, I was reading The Power of I Am and it was just so incredible because he’s talking about how we often look in the mirror and we see ourselves in a self-critical way. And then we look at our own lives and we are very critical about who we are. But in all actuality, you know, God made us the way that we look for a reason. And he made us the way that we are for a reason. And then Joel, was even talking about how he got the — and I forgot the name of the stadium that his church is at now.

ROGER: Oh yes.

KIM: You know what I’m talking about

ROGER: The one that was flooded the other day, yeah.

KIM: Yeah but everything worked out. He didn’t know how it was going to happen, but he knew it was going to work out. And in the past, when I was working on projects that I wasn’t passionate about, I would give up after the first try. And to be totally honest, I mean, we just went through Back Friday and Cyber Monday. And my launch for the Positive Productivity Pod hasn’t been as big as I had hoped, but I am so not concerned because I know it’s going to get there. And I’m not going to give up.

ROGER: They will.

KIM: So, listeners who are on my list, be forewarned because you are going to get more emails about the Positive Productivity Pod because it is about helping you. So yeah, just I know that I have this passion ann this purpose for a reason now. And I’m not going to give it up because now I can feel it in my heart. And I know it in my head and that’s what’s so important.

ROGER: Resonating with me right now, woman. I gotta tell you, absolutely.

KIM: Awesome, listeners, I hope that we’re resonating with you as well. And if we are, please go over thekimsutton.com/pp220 where you’ll be able to find the show notes and links to Roger’s website, and anything that we really talked about during this whole episode. And on that note, Roger, where can listeners find you and connect with you online

ROGER: You can get a hold of me at www.2ndauthenticlife.com. That’s 2-N-D, Authentic Life . com and on there you can find — I’m putting some other stuff on there, but you can find a downloadable worksheet that’s part of my program. You can have that for free. And to get you started in thinking in a way that resonates with you and finding a business that resonates with you. And drop me a line there. And I will — I connect with everybody, that I’ve personally, that I’ve speak to, or that I got an email from. And that’s probably the best way to do it right now. I’m also LinkedIn and I’ve got a Facebook thing up and running. And I’ve — you can always connect to me on Facebook, Roger Ramsukh. That’s R-O-G-E-R and the last name’s R-A-M, as in Mary, S-U-K-H. I know it looks weird but it’s pronounced Ramsek.

KIM: Thank you Roger. I love the phonetic. Roger, do you have a last piece of parting advice? And by the way thank you so much. This was totally enlightening and I can’t wait to have so many more conversations with you.

ROGER: I had so much fun.

KIM: Me too. Do you have a last piece of parting advice that you can offer to listeners before we wrap up for today. But I definitely will be bringing you back in the future.

ROGER: Absolutely. I’ll be on your show as many times as you want. I had such a good time on this topic. And, as you can probably tell, I can speak about this for days and I have spoken for days. And people’s eyes have glazed over and I still go over not even realizing that they had mentally tuned me out. But one of the things I say, in the end of it all is that, one of my taglines on my site, is authentic self infinite abundance. I think as long as you are doing the thing that resonates with you. You will find the money. The will come to you. Perhaps not the way you thought, but in other ways. People will find to help you when your mission is true. You know, and even if they don’t and even if it doesn’t become a struggle. Not every business, sorry, not every venture has to necessarily create money for you if it’s bringing you joy. And maybe, you make money other ways. And your second authentic life is something that you’ve always want to do on the side but you keep saying one day, in one day. One day isn’t a day on the calendar. One day starts maybe today. So, I always say when you’re authentic with yourself and who you actually are. Your reason for living, your joyful living, that will find expression. What is meant to be will always find a way.