PP 064: Peak Productivity as a Creative Entrepreneur with Kathryn Brown

Episode Transcription

KIM: We’ll come back to another episode of positive productivity. This is your host Kim, and today I’m thrilled to have Kathryn Brown with us. She is the founder of creating your plan and it’s a productivity and work-life balance coach.

Welcome Kathryn, I’m thrilled that you’re here.

KATHRYN BROWN: Thank you so much. Kim, I’m really excited to be here today.

KIM: Oh I’m really excited you’re here too. And I also I didn’t even mention that you’re also a mixed media artist which excites me greatly because; my background is in the art as well. And I just love all-all things creative

KATHRYN BROWN: Oh, that’s great! Awesome!

KIM: Yeah. So, I’d love to hear about your journey as – What you’re doing now? How you got here? And also about – How being a mixed media artist is incorporated with everything that you do?

KATHRYN BROWN: Absolutely. I love to share it. Alright. So how do you want to get started here?

KIM: Yeah. Can you share a little bit about your background with us?

KATHRYN BROWN: Yeah absolutely. My background actually started back this whole coaching, and this desire to be of service in that way started way back incorporate. When I was first starting out my career I was a corporate trainer for a manufacturing company in the tech sector back in California and it was something I really – I love that connection with people – I loved seeing when those light bulbs went-went off, and when those connections got made and they’re just like “Oh my gosh! You know this is something I can really implement, and use and see benefit from”. And when that happens, I knew it was going to be something to do with that whole training piece. And so time went on. Careers change, shift happens, and you know you keep kind of going through your life and then I ended up actually incorporating that into our professional development where I spent the last 14 years in teaching of technology both with grownups and with kids. So, I had that opportunity to really embrace all of the soft skills side of the tech side when it came to you know that coaching, and that training, and loved-loved so much about it. But there was a time and many entrepreneurs can speak to this – that moment where you know, you have something bigger to create – something that belongs to you – something that is part of you that – you know that if you don’t do something about it it’s just going to shrivel up and die. So, I took the league back in 2014 and started my own business. I was still working 50-60 hours a week in my day job. And I knew it wasn’t going to be sustainable to do that for a long period of time. But I had my exit strategy. I was working towards building this business on the side to a point where it was – definitely trending to that point where it could be my full time gate. And that transition happened just this past summer. So I’m nearly full time in my own business. They’re excited to be doing that and it’s been a great journey so far.

KIM: Well congratulations! I can’t even imagine trying to build this business when I was working 50 to 60 hours a week. I mean, I was doing 40 hours a week when I did it and that was hard. So kudos to you! That’s amazing!

KATHRYN BROWN: Oh, thank you! You know sometimes, I surprised myself but I had – I was on a mission. You know I knew what I wanted. I was going to make it happen no matter what.

KIM: Oh absolutely! And I think all entrepreneurs – when we’ve got that mission ahead of us, we can do anything that we set heart out to do.

KATHRYN BROWN: Oh, most definitely! Most definitely! So yes! So, back in June I made that transition, and soon as I left that day job, I served my first program. I’d already been coaching – one to one and then I left my day job out one Friday and the Monday after my program with actual attendees were in there, and started my own thing. So, it happened very quickly.

KIM: Oh, wow! So you were all set up, like – truly set up, when you-when you left your day job?

KATHRYN BROWN: Oh, yes! I am that – I’m that very strange mix of left and right brain. My brain just functions in this very – I don’t know very unique fashion. You know I love like a flowchart. It’s beautiful to me. But I also love the idea of lists and the idea of really being very systematic. Right and seeing how one thing needs to happen before this other thing comes to happen. You know it just that it just all kind of flows together for me. And so having that plan was something that I had in place back in 2014. I knew, I knew pretty much what I wanted. It’s just a matter of working it.

KIM: So, what tools you use to help you manage your lists, and your plans, and your big goals?

KATHRYN BROWN: You know that’s a great question! And I can tell you that – my tools change, and kind of they kind of grow over time, and what I – always look for – when it comes to tools is “I look for what is it that I need that tool to do”. I don’t look for the latest and greatest gadget to you know – take all that time the learning curve, and you know implementing and all that. I’d much rather look for something those suits – what I need without being too robust, and too big of too many things to do with it. Right? So, I’m very much a – hybrid girl, when it comes to any kind of tools paper and pen are absolutely my favorite planning tools. Having a routine around when that paper and pen get taken out, (laugh) and the planning process happens, and the review, and that progress monitoring process happens – that is what makes schools come through. It is not about the tech tool that you choose. However, there are some great ones out there. Some of my favorites. I love Trello. I like a Sanna quite a bit. I have clients who use base camp because; I work in that way with my clients. You know looking for new tools that have different aspects about them that I think will appeal to them – long enough to actually integrate them – “Is the key”. It’s kind of like you know, I feel like tools and systems are kind of like when you’re dating, right they’re nice and shiny on the outside, and you know you’re really excited about the beginning, and then you know that shine wears off after a couple of weeks. It’s just like “Oh! it’s not so much, you know – I’m ready for the next one” and especially when they’re hard to implement. And so that’s one of the things that I take very seriously when I go to select a tool for a client, or even for myself. I do a lot of you know – making sure is it really needing what I need. Just like – “Here are my criteria. How does that match up?”, “Where am I going to have problems?”, “Why does that overlap?” or something else. All those things come into play.

KIM: Oh, absolutely. I have to ask, How much do you think you’re enjoying using pen and paper have to do with being – right side and left side? Because, I share that with you.

KATHRYN BROWN: I think it is a very key component but, it comes back from – my childhood that, I was always that way. I always loved having, and – I can’t say: “I love planner’s!”. Let me clarify that – “I do not love planners!” I find it very limiting. So I always create my own. (laugh) And I – so I put different pieces together of things that- I know work for me. So, I always create my own kind of materials. Right. But that to me is so horrid because, when I plan I also – graphically and visually have to draw things out. Like what I’m looking at – How does something you know how is the process working for me?, or – How am I going to get from A to Z?, you know -What does B look like? let me map that out a little bit, -Let me do some mind mapping, I need space from that, and so pen and paper is just it’s just the best!

KIM: I’m over here laughing because; I feel the same way about planners. I rarely – No!, I can’t even say “rarely”, I haven’t found a planner yet that does what I need it to. So I’m actually developing two different planners – with my designer with my graphic designer right now because, yeah I’m ready for the one that – I know I want!

KATHRYN BROWN: You know and one of the things I created, it’s funny because I created a planner for myself when I was still working that 50 plus, hours 60 plus hours a week. So, I created my own planner. It did not have a date on it. It had no time slots because that’s not what a planner to me is – that’s an appointment book. If you need an appointment book – get after your phone, and use your calendar. But, if you need a plan, if you need to map out your next steps, if you need to really have a place to say: “How am I going to get move of this ball from here to you know, halfway down the field?”, “What is that going to look like?”. There is no planner – with you know, appointments and time slots and all that that will accommodate that. So, I created something specifically for myself back when I first started. Right. And what – it was so funny when I was in that beginning mode, and I was trying to think of an Opt-in. “What should I offer?”, you know “What could be my free offer to someone to join my list, and learn more about what I do?”, and I’m just like you know – everyone says “Use what you have!”. So, I’m searching through everything and I’m just like – “Duh!” you know, “Why don’t I just use this planner that I created”. So, anyway that was my Opt-in, and it is still my primary Opt-In, the one that is really the most popular item for everything I offer. It’s funny. Still and I still use it.

KIM: It’s incredible. So would you say that it’s almost? Is it a hybrid then between the – undated, no time slot, conventional planner, and almost like a journal?

KATHRYN BROWN: It is. In fact, part of why planning process is a lot about reflection, a lot about integrating – What happened this past week? – What’s ahead? Really being intentional about – What’s being I guess paying attention and having a place to record, what is happening? So, it doesn’t get lost in the busyness of living. Right. So, I incorporate that journaling piece as well. But the planning part, it is undated. I do have a set up so you have a Monday your Friday and a weekend for sure. But it’s not with times there’s no timing on it. It’s strictly around the three main things that – you’re working on, and – What are the next steps for each of them? And – Who do you need to be reaching out to? Who is someone that you need to be connecting with this week? Why do you need to be talking to them? So, a little bit of relationship management in there, and to me if you have those pieces together, and you’re consistently moving out fall forward toward that goal that you know you want – it’s just a matter of time. Success will happen!

KIM: Oh! That’s so great! And I know that in a questionnaire for the – for the podcast you wrote that you have a daily practice, and part of it includes positive affirmations and gratitude. So does your planner incorporate that – in there for you as well?

KATHRYN BROWN: The planner is weekly. A weekly review. It’s what I use for my Sunday Review practice. I have a Sunday planning ritual, and this is what part of this is. My daily practice is really that but, I just have a journal and I do three things. And I – in this journal – I do my gratitude for sure, and being as specific as possible, and sometimes I end up doing it twice a day. Especially, if I’m feeling kind of like – overwhelmed or feeling kind of stressed about anything. I tend to double up on my gratitude because, that puts me in a place of – thinking about how abundant my life really is, and gets me out of that negative spiral that – can happen to so many of us when we focus on the things that – are not happening or the things that – are not happening as quickly as we want and just reframe it, get back into a much more positive mindset, and really focus in – on the things that are happening. And so that ties directly in with what I feel. It’s like evidence. Like, “What is the evidence of the work I’m doing right now is paying off?”, “What’s the smallest thing that I can pay attention to?” You know that someone return my call that, I’m hoping to work with or you know, I have an invitation to you know – to be on a podcast. These are also need – evidence that the work that I’m doing is – valued and important, and so you know for me that’s really part of it.

KIM: Oh, that’s so huge. I love all of that. So, it’s a work life balance coach. What are the biggest steps that you are hoping your clients take to reach – that work life balance? And is – I hate to ask this considering you are a work life balance coach. Is there really such thing, and what does it look like to you?

KATHRYN BROWN: Ha. Great question. OK, well first of all – balance is something that it is a moving mark. What feels balance one day, will feel totally out of balance next week. So, balance to me goes back to that – really a self-awareness, and – a practice of paying attention to – how you’re feeling, – to what’s happening around you, and – how it impacts you and the people around you. So, I believe, that a kind of balance can occur in a continuum. Sometimes we feel really well-balanced. Like everything feels like it’s in the flow. Right. Things just are just – very easy. There’s the effort does not seem to be so hard. Things just seem like – you’re sleeping well. You’re exercising regularly. Your relationships are good. You know work that that you want is coming your way, and it just feels like your just enough slope but, it’s not something that always stays that way because, something always falls to the wayside. Right. Something comes out of balance. We get really busy so, our workouts stop happening, or we eat more fast food, and then our date nights with her husband fall off the wagon, and we forget our son’s soccer game. And these kinds of things just happen. And so, the whole thing of having that work life balance is: “How do I bring myself back to center to really embrace in those things that are important to me?” So, it’s that – constant awareness, and – constant readjustment.

KIM: Oh, my gosh! OK. So, I may be the host of the show, but you just opened up my eyes. Well not necessarily my eyes, but (laugh) you made me aware of so many things. I mean for example last night, I had to juggle a soccer practice for one son, and a choir concert for another that I didn’t – I completely forgot was even happening, and then trying to balance getting the three little fed in bed. And you know just all the – unbalance of being a mom, plus all the activities for my business, and I mean never mind the date with my husband, and sleeping well. And but, I do actually want to touch on – sleeping well because, there’s different people have different thoughts about – sleep and – How much you should be getting? and – What sleeping well – actually means? So, what is your thought about sleep? How many hours do you think people should be getting? and What is your definition of sleeping well?

KATHRYN BROWN: Well, OK. My definition is that we are all wired differently. So, what works for you is – not gonna to work for someone else. So, I believe that finding out – your best sleep, and it goes back to like for me it ties into this whole idea of how do we work best. Right. And that is something that is hardwired into each of us. OK. So, when it comes to – How much sleep do you need? I think obviously you know health statistics say you should have X amount. Well, that could very well be true. OK. But we know – that we can get on with less sleep over a short amount of time but, it does really have a problem for us for long term. We lose all the benefit – right because, we’re not as productive, we’re not as – as keyed into the work that we’re doing. So, in my belief I think – consistency of sleep pattern is so much more important than the “How much!”.

KIM: Oh, that’s so huge. I love that.

KATHRYN BROWN: Yeah. So, I would say like for me, I am not a morning person. I had to be somewhere this morning for 7:30. That meant I had to be up by six, and that is not a time frame that I feel I should be up. (laugh) I just don’t function well.

KIM: (laugh)

KATHRYN BROWN: You know, and it takes a whole boatload of coffee to get me really like – firing on all cylinders. OK. This is not a prime time for me to be up, and really talking to people. However, you know get me like this time of the day. Yeah, I’m absolutely, you know – this is my zone. So, I think it’s a matter of being consistent. So, if you wake up every day at 7:30, and you go to bed every day at 10:30. If you have that habit – your body adjusts. When we get out of balance with our sleep, and we tend to get up – really early, – stay up really late the next day to sleep in, and we then we can’t go to sleep until like 2:00 in the morning, and then we have this roller coaster effect on our sleep pattern, and then – we just don’t rest well – we don’t wake up energized. We wake up just like: “Oh my gosh! I feel like I’ve been run over by a truck”. You know I just don’t feel like – I should be feeling, I’ve got 10 hours sleep but I’m still tired is because, typically – we haven’t slept in a kind of a consistent manner. So, that’s one of my very strong beliefs about sleep. And it doesn’t mean you can’t sleep then but, it cannot be something that you do – repeatedly because, you’ll never get back in balance with that.

KIM: Oh, absolutely! And I’ve noticed that myself. I mean, you can’t sleep one or two hours a night – for four nights straight, and then think that – 14 hours can make it all better.

KATHRYN BROWN: No! you’re in deficit, and it takes you know – of course I’m not a scientist but, I can tell you from human behavior, and I know from my own self that – when I’ve been pushed to a deadline, and I’ve really had a compact my sleep to – you know to meet something, I know that it takes more than, you know – sleeping 24 hours straight to recover. That takes time, and it takes me getting back into a consistency sleep pattern that works for me.

KIM: Oh, absolutely. So, I am curious about your mixed media art, and I would love to know – How you have incorporated it into your personal, and professional routine – to maintain positive productivity?

KATHRYN BROWN: Well, you know what? It is one of these things that, as I got into – gosh! into my 40’s, I rediscovered that I really loved to color and like playing with paint. I’ve always been a creative but, it’s shown up in different ways. And so I had – I took a class in my 40’s, and I was like: “Wow! this is really cool! I’m really enjoying it”. And I had this goal that – I wanted to learn how to draw – stylized portrait, not like realism by any stretch but, I wanted to do a stylized portrait. So, I practiced, and practice, and practice, and I could do it!

You know, it took time but, it took that routine that muscle memory of – Here’s how a nose shape, – Here or how you know the spacing of the face, – Here’s how the face is napped, – Here’s how I can you know, all these things just you practice it becomes second nature. So, I was kind of in that group when I first started the attempt to build my website, and I was struggling really-really hard with coming up with like a color palette, there’s so many choices right? Like, – What colors? You know my first attempt it looked wage corporate, and I’m totally not that, and then – What about the thoughts? You know all these questions were coming up and I’m just like “Uh!” I was like stuck for weeks, trying to figure out the silly color palette. Right. And so, I decided that I was just going to put that website – on hold, and I just got very frustrated. (laugh) I just said: “OK, enough! I can work on something I have control over”. That’s one of my biggest tips, when it comes to being – feeling stuck, – feeling like you’ve hit a roadblock. Moved to something you have control over. Move to something that – it doesn’t matter what the result is. OK.

KIM: And I guess I was being…

KATHRYN BROWN: -that’s where the media came in. So, my – if you had a camera on me right now, my office is shared with my art studio. So, one half is my-my office set up, you know – a printer, computer, and all that good stuff, and then my back side of my space here is my art studio. So, I actually turned my chair, and went to my paint, (laugh) and I are painting. And as I was painting, – this image came through, and I was using these colors, and I’m just like – it just came through in fact – this girl, this portrait came out of the paint, and these colors were right there. I’m just like: “OK. I just found my color that I want to use at my color palate”, and I also found the kind of fun whimsical – kind of feel I wanted for my website, and that turned out to be the girl – that is on my Website, she’s in my header. So, she came out of the paint that day, and I grabbed my document camera, grabbed the color palette from my paint as it was drying. And I said: “OK, I’ve got my – I’ve got my color palette, and I know that-the feel that I want my website, it came from that”. So, it was that setting into that creative space, where it was extremely quiet. There was no noise. It was just me, and the paint, and just being at creative space where I could just like – I just need to play. I just needed to – not be so tied up with the results. I was so resolved but, I just needed something that was mine, and it didn’t matter how it turned out, and sure enough by giving myself that opportunity – just to step away, – do something that was totally different than just sitting there, willing that website to be complete. I just I took a different route and that process has served me over, and over, and over again.

KIM: I love all of that, and I especially, love how you said, you know – the logo that you were looking at, and the website were just way too corporate, and I think that’s a problem that a lot of people have. They’re trying to – they’re looking at the influences around them, and they’re not really thinking about – what’s coming from them in their heart and their soul, and they don’t really think to – step away and get creative sometimes. Or maybe they do… But, they’re afraid of what others will think.

KATHRYN BROWN: Oh! I was terrified because, I had never ever put my art anywhere. Nobody had ever seen it. Maybe my husband’s. Maybe you know some of my family but, it wasn’t something I share with that anybody else, and here I was planning on using that image that I had created as my logo. In my header – on my website (laugh)

KIM: (laugh)

KATHRYN BROWN: I was like: “What am I thinking?” But that was a huge risk for me, but that risk allowed me just to say: “You know what, I don’t really care!”. You know I think it looks good, and the people who will be attracted to – what it is that I do will like it too.

KIM: Oh, absolutely! And those would be your ideal clients, probably as well.

KATHRYN BROWN: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So, it was quite a – it was quite a process but, it was a very powerful lesson to me, and one that – I go back to whenever I get in that place of frustration, and feeling stuck, and just like nothing’s working – it’s all too hard I can’t figure it out. Go make out. (laugh)

KIM: Oh, absolutely, and one hurdle that I found a lot is because, I do also have an artistic side. I’ve tried to do design, and maybe – I shouldn’t have been doing in the first place, and I would’ve spent – way too long on it, and then look at it, and I’ve just been totally not convinced by what I produced, and then I got the: “Aha, that you know – I could outsource, I didn’t need to be doing it myself”. So, I love how you help your clients build teams with confidence. Can you share that? It can. Can you share some of how you do that?

KATHRYN BROWN: Well, you have a really good point there. You know just because we can do some of the work, doesn’t mean – we should be doing the work. And this is coming from someone, and I will call myself this very you know matter of fact – I am a control freak. I like things done a certain way. I have high expectations, and I you know – I don’t think anybody can do it as long me. OK. That is being honest transparent truth. Now, when it comes to identifying that this is also one of the-not only because, I’m very you know, able to do many things. It is also a very big weak spot for me because; I will slow down my growth if I don’t outsource – certain things. I work with my clients around a specific thing because, you can only get to a certain point your business if – you were doing everything yourself. You will hit that ceiling. You will tap out. You will burn out, and you will not be able to grow your business because, you’re so busy working in it. Doing the work of – the business as opposed to doing your work to – grow your business. So, my strategy with-I works very closely with those kinds of entrepreneurs who may be just in the process of building a team. They may have already hired someone. And what we do, through a lot of, you know – kind of assessment process is we identify – How they utilize the people that they do have available to them? either via outsourced you know, or actual on staff employees and really getting clear – Are they – do they number one half the employees in the right spot, in the business to really help grow that business? That’s number one, and number two: Are they utilizing them to the best of their ability?, and that comes back to really having a clear idea about: – What work needs to be done within the business?, – Has that been documented, and so, it’s really workflows have been identified, systems have been really mapped out. And then, you know operating procedures have been written to be able to replicate that process to a high degree of excellence so, it’s repeatable, and then that business owner can start feeling confident that once that training has been done, she can now just be doing more spot checking on what that employee’s doing, rather than micromanaging the day to day operations.

KIM: Have you found much resistance in the practice of creating standard operating procedures?


KIM: Why do you think that happened? Because, I fit into the same resistance, and I know it’s a time consuming practice up front but, in the in the back-end, or in the future those documents are going to be worth so much, and save so much time.

KATHRYN BROWN: And I think it’s a combination of things. One is: – They don’t see the value in them. They think this is just common sense. Well, I’m sorry to tell you that it is. It may very well be common sense for you, about what needs to happen every time you micro step that needs to happen. Might be common sense for you because you’ve been doing it for X many years, its second nature to you. But, for someone who is not as invested in her business – as an employer or outsourced person has, unless they have a road map that specifically shows them every step along the way, you will not get the results that you want. You will have just disappointed clients. You will have expectations that are not being met. You’re going to have to mediate them, and you’re going to waste time. So, a lot of this is – it’s kind of characteristic, you know instead of just throwing your ploy here, just you know – “I’ll train you but, you better take really good notes.” or you’re setting yourself up for disaster. You’re setting yourself up for unsatisfied customers and clients. If you want to have a stellar business where, you get referral, after a referral in word of mouth. It’s just like: “Working with her is golden because, I get – I don’t care who she has me working with. I get this awesome result every time!” That’s what we want! That’s what that business is all done.

KIM: Oh, absolutely. Who – I can’t remember, is that Ritz-Carlton? that they have like that – their standard for how everything is done. I think they have a name for it. If I can find it, I’ll put it in the show notes but, every person knows you know – this is how we operate, and that’s really how it should happen.

KATHRYN BROWN: Yes! Translating that-that culture right, your culture for your business is so important. Even if you’re just a team of three. Right. That culture and you want to really indoctrinate the people that are brought on board, even if they are outsourced. They’re not employees on payroll. They need to be indoctrinated to what your values system is, – what you believe to be true about your business, and the level of service you provide, and a quality of product they will provide. If they are not on board, they’re not-and they’re not willing to – you know to really, you know someone said: “You’re asking them to drink the lemonade. I said – absolutely or coolly, absolutely!”. I want them to be all in, and I understand – Why this is so important? They need to see the bigger picture, it’s not just – do this, do that. – Why is this important? What is the benefit of doing it to that degree every time, and using these, as a piece every time you use that particular workflow until you master it?

KIM: And I know some people could be concerned that they are writing the documents that allow other people to take their jobs but, in the end. Yes! Because, if you wrote that document, it allows you to move up – sooner in the organization because, you have all the documents laid out – that somebody else can do your job, so you can progress.

KATHRYN BROWN: Absolutely! And if you are in a position of leadership within your own organization, or within someone else’s. If you can find a way to make your job almost obsolete, which makes you even more valuable because, you were helping grow leaders within your organization. It is – it sounds kind of intuitive right but, it actually showing what – an amazing leader you are because, you’re helping bring people up, who can be doing this job. You’re helping – paid that way by really having solid documentation about their systems and processes.

KIM: Oh, absolutely. Kathryn, if you read “Work the System” I think it was by Sam carpenter.

KATHRYN BROWN: You know what – the name sounds familiar! I don’t know if I’ve read it though.

KIM: He has – and I need to make sure if that – that’s the correct author but, I’ll put it in the show notes. He had a call center company and he was struggling a lot. He ended up – I believe losing his house, and having to live out of the storage room in the back, or maybe he didn’t lose his house but, he was – he was doing so many jobs that he ended up sleeping in the storage room, that might be the – more correct story. But then he realized that – it was just the “aha moment” that he really needed those SOP’s, and he actually gave incentive to his team – to improve them, like a monetary incentive – I believe, and those procedures got his business running so smoothly that I think by the time of writing this book, he was down to maybe being able to work four hours a week. Just checking in and making sure that everything is going well, and that’s so huge because, this team knows how to do everything – even when he’s not in office.

KATHRYN BROWN: Oh, yeah, and I mean that whole ability to have someone else be able to step in, and do the job – in a pinch. That can’t happen without having written documentation. That is so well laid out, and walk someone through the whole process from beginning to end. That can’t happen. You know if it does happen – it doesn’t happen very well.

KIM: Oh, right! Absolutely! So, what are you working on right now Kathryn, that you are especially excited about?

KATHRYN BROWN: One of the things that I have-had percolating in the background, and some I really wanted to do was to – have a membership site. It’s something that not everyone can work with a coach one to one. I mean it’s hard you know, first of all to say: “OK, I can, you know investing in this way is a good move for me right now”. Sometimes you just need a little bit of personal accountability. You need someone to say: “Hey! you got this!. Those depths look awesome. I’m going to check in with you mid week”. And so I have gone ahead, and – I’m putting together the final touches of a membership site, that will allow people to be able to step into a more productive mindset because, there is a space that I’m holding for them – to do that accountability, and to have a little mini course released every month that will offer them more and more ability to do – to work on systems, – to really figure out how to optimize, how to leverage what they have already. I’m a big believer in use which you have, and do everything you can with it before you say: “I’m ready for the tool. Let’s look at what you got first”. And so building that membership site, and then building it and a couple other levels above it. So it’s kind of a stair thing. So, there’s going to be another two levels, which will offer a different level of one to one with me.

It just feels like a really – good combination of a way for someone to step into something – at a very low entry level, and also give people an opportunity to work with me more closely.

KIM: Oh, that sounds so fantastic! So, I know it’s-it’s not launched yet. So, where can listeners go to find out more about you, and what you’re doing now, and I’m sure that when the membership site launches that you’ll have news on your site announcing it.

KATHRYN BROWN: Yeah, Absolutely! My website, of course, is creatingyourplan.com. I have a Facebook group “The Implementation Cafe” which would probably between the two will get – the double dose from news on that, but that will be probably the best way to learn more about what I do for one, and also to get first dibs on the membership site when it rolls out.

KIM: Oh, that sounds so fantastic, and is the group open?

KATHRYN BROWN: The group is open. It is.

KIM: Oh, fabulous.

KATHRYN BROWN: Yup, In fact that group is going to be the basic level, which will be free access to the group. Plus, they will also have the opportunity to get that monthly – we’re going to be doing monthly challenges, and access to the challenge in a recorded way so, that they can go back or revisit material. There is a membership level but, it will be free as well paid levels about that. So we’re really excited about that.

KIM: Oh that’s fantastic. You can look for my name over there, later today.

KATHRYN BROWN: (laugh) Awesome! Looking forward to it Kim!

KIM: Yeah, as am I. Well thank you so much Kathryn for being here today. I’ve really enjoyed the conversation. I’m sure the listeners have as well.

KATHRYN BROWN: Well, thank you so much for the opportunity. I love talking about the set especially someone who shares that-that whole positive productivity mindset for sure, and that creative avenue of really digging into what makes this work right.

KIM: Oh, definitely and I definitely want to talk in the future more about – How we work when, when we’ve got both the left and right brains reaching for our attention constantly?, because it definitely can be a struggle. I call it chronic idea disorder.

KATHRYN BROWN: Oh, yes! And I have a system for that. (laugh)

KIM: Oh, I definitely need to hear about that. So, you can consider this an invitation to come back so, we can talk about – that system.

KATHRYN BROWN: Oh, I would love it. I would absolutely love it, Kim. Thank you so much.

KIM: Oh, you’re welcome and thank you. And thank you to the listeners for being here for another episode of positive productivity. I invite you to share this episode across all your social media, and if you enjoyed it please visit the podcast on Stitcher, iTunes and leave your reading and review.