PP 342: Jeff Jones, Family Recovery Coach from Family Recovery Solution
As an adolescent and young man, Jeff became aware of how alcoholism had impacted his family dynamics. As he grew older, he took these lessons and turned them into a career. Listen as we discuss inter-generational transmission, our culture’s emphasis on treating symptoms rather than causes, the various forms of addiction and more!
Highlights:
10:15 Shifting thinking to prevent/cure addiction
12:15 Workaholism as a form of addiction
24:40 How we want to feel at the end of the day
40:10 The difference between therapy and coaching
Connect with Jeff
Episode Transcription
Kim Sutton: Welcome back to another episode of Positive Productivity. This is your host, Kim Sutton, and I’m so happy that you’re here to join us today. I am also thrilled to introduce our guest, Jeff Jones. Jeff is a family recovery coach from the Family Recovery Solution. Jeff, I’m so happy that you’re here.
Jeff Jones: Well, thank you very much, Kim. I appreciate the invite.
Kim Sutton: Oh, you’re so welcome. Jeff, I’d love if you would share your story with the listeners so they know how you got to where you are today.
Jeff Jones: Yeah, thank you. For my story, I would go back to being 7, 8, 9 years old, and my parents would take my sister and I to my grandfather’s cabin at Kentucky Lake. It was one of the most wonderful experiences for me as a child. Because at my grandfather’s, more love and attention got showered upon me than in my family of origin, any other time of my life. So when we went to Kentucky, the whole family kind of situation changed. One is I was getting all this love and attention. Another thing is my mother who is incredibly competent and ran our family down in Kentucky, she was in the shadows, she was quiet, almost mousy. And the other thing that was going on, it came to my attention, not because I saw it, but because my sister told me about it. My three female cousins were not getting that attention. So that’s kind of the basis of my story right there.
And fast forward to becoming a counselor and a therapist, and getting a master’s degree and all that kind of stuff. I really wanted to do something that I was passionate about that meant something really, really important to me. And so I chose my own family, probably like a lot of therapists do, which was families addiction, and eventually trauma. So those three things became my focus. And the more I learned, the more I kind of understood what happened to me as a child. And in psychobabble terms, that would be intergenerational transmission, but essentially that love and it’s an attention that was showered upon me by my grandfather. And at 7, 8, 9 years old, I didn’t know my grandfather was an alcoholic. That word was never really used. But as I got older, I learned more about it. And every question I had from my mother was, Jeff, what you really need to understand is your grandfather’s an alcoholic, which was not really very fulfilling to me. In my 20’s and 30’s, I did my share of drugs and alcohol. But when I became a therapist, I really wanted to better understand this. And this kind of the intergenerational transmission piece is kind of like a passing on of carrying the grief and trauma in the family of passing on of that role. And I really didn’t know, I didn’t sign up for that role.
But oftentimes in that role, the best way to numb all of the feelings of carrying grief and pain that’s not really all mine is drugs and alcohol, and they numb that. So that’s kind of the basis of why I’m doing what I’m doing because it took me 40 plus years to heal. And it really doesn’t need to take families 40 plus years to heal, or in some cases, divided, separated, cut off and that’s the end of family relationships. So that’s why I’m doing what I’m doing. And that’s his story behind it.
Kim Sutton: Thank you so much for sharing. I’ve seen in my own family history that from viewing other families, so many families don’t look for help until, and this is gonna sound pessimistic, but till it’s too late. So what would be your advice, and this is what you’re finding with your clients as well, that they’re coming at a time when they really could have used your help years ago. But now it’s a point of crisis, and it’s either do this or fall apart completely.
Jeff Jones: Yep, exactly. And, wow, I really appreciate you saying that. One thing that I want to make really clear is, this isn’t the family’s fault. They feel responsible, they keep it to themselves. They may feel shame, but it’s really not their fault. How I see this is that our culture doesn’t, it’s not really in the business of solving the addiction problem. And so it falls to families to deal with because we can, whether it’s substance or behavior, not everybody is going to have the same reaction. Not everybody’s body is equally vulnerable to addiction. So some of us can get it very, very easily. But going right to your question, it happens all the time that families wait, and wait, and wait. And waiting really probably isn’t the best word. It’s more like they’re doing their best, they’re doing their best, and there’s so very little resources. So I’ve done what I’ve done to kind of bridge resources to where family members can get online, and they can even do it anonymously and start to connect with other people just like them and resources, family specific resources to kind of help them start to understand a larger picture of what’s going on around the addiction.
Kim Sutton: I can see that. One of my good friends, his son died several years ago from a heroin overdose. And the opioid, can I say that, right? This is huge all over the US, as far as I know, all over the world, but they’re very much so around. Not right in my town, but in the communities surrounding my town. And it’s just unfortunate. I’ve even seen issues where medical symptoms that we’re facing are being treated with more drugs, rather than really going to the root of the whole problem. And often, that’s the cause of so many issues in the family too. We are treating the symptoms. Like you just said, we’re treating the symptoms via drugs and alcohol, rather than going down to the root because it’s more accessible.
Jeff Jones: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I think the other part of it that I see is that our system of care is a larger kind of way that healing happens or the services that are available focus on one person. And this kind of looking at the larger picture is kind of in the shadows. And the opioid crisis is huge. I mean, the statistics that I say all the time come from facingaddiction.org, which is every four minutes someone in our country, the US dies of an overdose or an alcohol related cause. So every four minutes, that’s like the foot of a jumbo jet going down. And just with that statistic, there’s like one in three families impacted by a death. And I think, oh, my gosh, how many families are impacted by addiction before death? So this is a huge problem. And I think a lot of us know, and there’s a lot of kind of like, so what can we do about it? Because there’s so many people on the front lines really trying to do their best and kind of the system of healing that we have set up, system of healing or recovery, whatever the right word is there for that.
Kim Sutton: So how can we get in there earlier and prevent this?
Jeff Jones: Yeah. So what I am doing, a big part of my program is shifting thinking, like how we think about this problem, problem being this statistic that I just quoted, or how families think about addiction in their family, or even at the earlier stage like, is this a problem? Is this not a problem kind of stage? Or shifting the thinking with professionals, whether it’s an addiction professional or a therapist, but just shifting the thinking there, as well to include the larger context. Because even professionals, like insurance will pay for an individual, the diagnosis or the definition of addiction is largely, it’s a brain disease, which I am in the camp of, yes, and it’s more than that. But when people see it just as a brain disease, it’s kind of like it’s easy to stay narrowly focused on that one person, and for family members, or professionals to think, well, you just need to get your brain fixed. And here’s what you need to do, A, B, C kind of thing. So I’m trying to have both and expand around this narrow focus. Expand and get information from the context, and how can we bring that information to make best decisions for this situation that’s right in front of us right now.
Kim Sutton: Jeff, I’ve realized recently on that, not so recently, but I think I’ve been more aware of the expression of workaholic more and more recently. And I am, this isn’t drugs or alcohol, but I am addicted to my work, and it does affect my family. Because I’ve realized that I can be harder on my children, especially my older ones, when my younger ones are distracting me, that I get more stressed because I know I need to be working on it. And in some ways, it’s not that much different from needing my latest hit of something. No, I don’t do drugs. I rarely drink alcohol, but it does impact my family.
Jeff Jones: Yeah.
Kim Sutton: So how do you recommend that we start looking at our family? And I know you said it’s about shifting thought, but what steps? Well, I’m just going to use an entrepreneurial family, for example. How can we start shifting things right now so that our family dynamics get better even in the midst of the craziness that’s going around? I know we’re talking about family recovery more so on the topic of substances, but there are so many other issues that can be affecting why it comes about. I want to go back to what you were also saying about your grandfather. I’ve noticed that I do favor my attention on the littles just because, sometimes, it doesn’t occur to me that my bigs need it just as much as they need that quality time with mom or dad. They need their words of encouragement, they need love, and I forget about it because they are so self-sustaining. But I don’t want them to think that they’re getting gypped in the end. And I don’t want them to turn to something else because they’re not getting what they need from their parents. And I think that so many entrepreneurs could find themselves in that same boat. Hey, my kids are old enough to make something to eat, I can just send them to go do that. He doesn’t need my attention, he is happy playing video games. But when we let go too much, that’s where other things come in.
Jeff Jones: Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah. Wow, thank you very much for bringing in that well. Actually, what I heard you did there is you expanded it from like drugs and alcohol addiction on one person to like a larger definition of addiction, or what I hear is a larger definition of addiction and how it plays out in addictions, like workaholism. So one of the first things that I want to say is when you first started talking about this, Kim, I know this is audio, but I had my hand raised, like focus on work thing to the exclusion of other things. And so the one way that I look at this is the definition of addiction that comes from a mentor of mine, Gabor Mate. That definition is really any behavior that initially is pleasurable, gives reward. But over time, ends up causing a problem to self, other family kind of thing. And even though we try, we can’t stop it. So that’s his definition, like a larger perspective definition of addiction. And so using myself as an example, when I raised my hand, I’m in the process of writing a book right now. And oftentimes can get up in the morning, and I try to use my mornings for writing. That doesn’t happen every morning, but a lot of mornings. And so what I have noticed is my brain makes a lot of dopamine when I’m writing. I mean, I’m very passionate about what I’m doing. And I realize it’s difficult to communicate what I’m doing. So I’m writing a book, but that morning time was my exercise time. And so that exercise time is kind of gone away. So it’s like, I am not my own self care. I’m compromising my own self care there. I’m not going to get a DUI for that, or anything like that. And over a long period of time, I may start to get some–
Kim Sutton: You could get a life sentence.
Jeff Jones: A life sentence of not taking care of myself in the way that I know is going to be helpful. So that’s an example that comes from me, and I’m in this process, like every day. So I need to make choices to where I can do both, like the passion that I have for writing, that I can engage in and incrementally move along with that. But then also, engage in physical activity, taking care of my body and engaging with other people. And one of the things I tried to do twice a week is play Wallyball with his group of guys. And we’ve been doing this for years. And I think what really helps is everyone to take an honest look at themselves, like you mentioned, work. Well, how do I do what needs to be done, not just all the business that I want to do, and really take a hard look at what does my family need? What do my kids need? What do I want to provide for them? What’s most important? All of those kinds of things. Which I know that when I get myopically focused on just writing and how exciting and passionate this is, and how much this can make a difference. And I really do believe this can make a difference in the world when family members are more in a position of strength to be able to make choices. But it’s like I can’t knock myself out, or kill myself, or like take away all self care for Jeff to do this. Because then, I put myself at risk.
Kim Sutton: Absolutely. Wow.
Jeff Jones: Did I answer your question, Kim?
Kim Sutton: Yeah. I think a lot of the time, we are so focused on the minute details that we forget to step back and look at the bigger picture. And I’ve been in that way myself. I’ve been so engrossed in my work that I haven’t taken a good look at what I’m doing to my body. As a way of dealing with stress, I will not deny that there have been times that I’ve had a margarita whereas I could have gone and done something healthier for myself even. And I’m not saying that spending more time with my kids would necessarily be less stressful than work, but it would be giving them the attention that they needed as well, and it would be getting away from work. I mean, even just going to the park or going for a walk with my family would be a better option than going to the margarita bottle. Listeners, I’m not trying to alarm you. This is not a nightly occurrence, it’s like a once a month or once every two months. But we forget to take that step back. I am guilty 10 times over of not taking steps back.
Jeff Jones: And I think it’s important that we, don’t hammer on ourself or beat ourselves up for having a margarita or something like that. But if having a margarita is the only strategy that we have, then that’s going to be a problem because we use that strategy over and over again. And we can easily get into a habitual process, and we can get into an addiction. Anybody can get into an addiction. But it’s like, how easy it is to get out is a very, very different story. But you bring up a really good point, that alcohol is in our culture, and alcohol in itself is not evil. I really want to make that clear. And I think what is most important is that we all have multiple resources available to us to bring ourselves back to center to kind of refuel our energy, our body, our thinking. There’s numerous ways to do that. I mean, this is the positivity podcast, so there’s all kinds of like positive thinking that can be a way to resource ourselves. Meditation can be a way to resource ourselves. The exercise thing can be a way to resource ourselves. Hanging out with friends who are positive and inspire us can be a resource. So where we get into problem is if we only have one resource.
Kim Sutton: Yes, I can see that. I’m even thinking about my husband and my other boys, my husband’s a video game developer. Video game addiction is very prevalent in our house. And that’s not helping anything either.
Jeff Jones: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Kim Sutton: Stressed, you don’t have a stressful day at work? Jump on video games. Having a stressful day at school or not even stressful but I’m addicted, so the first thing I’m going to do when I get home is jump on a video game.
Jeff Jones: Yeah, yeah. It isn’t like video games are evil either. But if that’s the only strategy that we have to kind of–
Kim Sutton: Absolutely.
Jeff Jones: Like what you were saying, if every day at the end of my day I jump on and do that, that can be over time, it can be problematic. So I think for all of us to just be aware of being able to have more than one way to feel the way we want to feel, like at the end of the day. If we only have that one strategy, like in your example, video games, or if we only have that one strategy like having a margarita or a glass of wine, and we do that over, and over, and over again, that potentially over time can be a problem. But the other thing, like expanding it out even further, we’re going to be less connected to our purpose in the world, and how we can express it, and really manifest it. So I really believe that more of us, like the world needs us.
Kim Sutton: Yeah, they do. Jeff, I want to jump back to something that you just said, though, you said, how we want to feel at the end of the day? If you would ask me 10 years ago, I don’t know what I would have said. I would have just said, well, at the end of the day, I’m just so tired. I don’t what do you mean how I want to feel. And I have a feeling that I’m not alone, or I wouldn’t have been alone. So I would love for you to jump into that just a little bit and talk more about that desired feeling. Because in the last few years, I’ve learned more about it, but I think other people need to learn more as well.
Jeff Jones: Yeah. Well, I think it’s pretty common that we live in a culture, we live in an environment with a fair amount of stressors. And how we deal with those stressors are, I mean, people have different ways on how to do that. The media, advertisements, marketing, all that kind of thing, it’s like they’re trying to answer that question for us, like using something specific like Nikes, just do it kind of thing. Whether it is some kind of advertisement for alcohol or something like that. But it’s like everybody, if they feel pain, and they may not consciously know it. But if they don’t feel well, they’re going to do something to feel better. And so that’s something that could be, well, I feel better when I have a glass of wine every night at the end of my day. Because I worked hard, I deserve it, and it’s only one glass of wine. And it’s not a problem to get off my back kind of thing. And so it’s easy to get into some kind of cycle like that. And when we just have the one strategy, that’s a problem.
But the other thing, we’re not always aware of how we feel, we’re not always aware of what stressors are. And specifically, when they come from like our childhood or something.I was having a conversation with a woman who did heroin. And one of the things that she said was like, the first time I did heroin, I felt like I got a soft, warm hug that I never got before. And so that was really powerful for me because, hey, who wouldn’t want a soft warm hug? And specifically, if they never had that, if they never experienced that, if they found a way to have that feeling, boy, how difficult would it be to do that over and over with any kind of stressor? So for me, that kind of gets into like connection and the power of human connection. And with addiction, we kind of get more connected to whatever we have the addiction with, which in that example was heroin. It could be our work, it could be the wine, it could be any number of things. But what is our relationship with that? And what is our relationship with humans? Real people.
Kim Sutton: Right. I had to bite my tongue over here. I was like, Jeff, you’re not supposed to be like, a nice warm hug like we’ve never had before, that sounds amazing. This isn’t helping the opioid crisis at all. But yeah, you’re exactly right. It’s that human connection that is lacking, it’s just even the open communication that we often lack because we’re afraid of saying the right thing, or we’re afraid of connecting with people because we’re afraid that they won’t like us. So rather than put ourselves out there and be vulnerable, so many of us just hide and we turn to the other devices to take that spot.
Jeff Jones: So I’m going back to my own little story here. When we grow up in a family with a structure that gets created in families with addiction, again, I want to say that that structure gets created through no fault of anybody in the family. But when we grow up in that kind of structure, as children, that’s what we get used to. And so it’s like, one thing to point at is communication. And it’s like relationships between people like, are there things in communication that are off the table, that everybody in the family just knows, for instance, like what could be under the umbrella of family rules, and everybody just kind of knows what they are. Maybe people couldn’t really articulate them, but they kind of know what the rules are. And they know not to have a conversation about certain things not to. I may be able to talk to one person about this, but I can’t talk to the other in my family. I could talk to my sister about some things, that with my mom, I pretty much couldn’t, and I tried. Even within the last 15 years, I tried having a conversation about things that were sacred. And my mom looked down, and she couldn’t say anything. She just started crying. She gave me information, but she couldn’t really have specific. She couldn’t tell me anything specific. So communication is not direct. What happens in families is people in different roles, they’re imagining the thoughts and feelings of other family members. And instead of checking that out, they assume that’s true, and they act on that.
Kim Sutton: I can totally see that.
Jeff Jones: So one way to start making change, and this may sound simplistic in some ways, is like, this isn’t rocket science. But the further along this structure gets kind of cemented, the harder it is to change it. But just being able to have a family meal together, or once a week doing a little family check in, like a weather report. I feel a little stormy here, and to be able to talk about why. Kind of just go around the table, spend 10, 15 minutes, whatever it is, and just check in with people. I mean, it sounds so simple. But actually, it’s like we’re moving further and further away from some things like this, that we all kind of know about, or grew up with, or have experienced before. And so we are all kind of a little more disconnected, and it’s easy to assume. So I’m just kind of going on and on here, Kim.
Kim Sutton: No, I really appreciate it so much because I see that so much in my family. I’m going to go back to my older boys again. It’s easy to assume why they did something or why they didn’t do something. I even see them fighting with each other because they assume a situation, and that’s not healthy. And in between my relationship with my ex husband and my current husband, communication has gone up 2,000%. My current husband and I talk about everything, even stuff that people would probably find inappropriate to talk about. We know everything that’s going on, and we communicate about it. And if more families could just be communicating more, and I am not saying that my family is perfect by any means because there are so many nights, most nights actually when we don’t do family dinner. Listeners, this is me being totally transparent because I am a workaholic. There are nights where I will be sitting at my desk, and my littles will be sitting at the table eating their dinner, but I’m trying to get something done. And thank you, you just actually gave me a big cake because I have been working really hard to block out that time for my littles. But I have not been dedicated to it. And as a result, my older kids are seeing the actions that I’m taking so they’re stopping eating at the table as well, asking if they can eat somewhere else. And the whole family is getting disconnected. So it’s time that we bring ourselves back together, so thank you.
Jeff Jones: Yeah, you’re welcome. And I think it is quality time, as opposed to just FaceTime.
Kim Sutton: Oh, I agree. Yeah.
Jeff Jones: And sometimes, I talk with families about very simple things like this. And they’re way past this, they’re like, many years past this so I don’t want to be kind of putting the message out there that this is a do wall end and all. There’s a lot of different behaviors, relationships. I can even think of them as like rituals that we do over and over again. When I think back to being a kid, we ate together as a family. And that’s just an example, probably about 90% of the time. My mom made that a very big deal. Despite growing up in a family with a structure like addiction and all that, my mom did make that a very big deal. And I’m kind of struggling here, what is one thing that I can say that’s applicable to a lot of people? And I’m not sure there is just one thing, but this is just an example.
Kim Sutton: I love it. And I’m not the expert here, but I really have to say, open up the doors of communication.
Jeff Jones: Sure.
Kim Sutton: Because without communication, nobody else is going to have any idea what’s going on. But when you open up the doors of communication to allow yourself to share, you also have to open up the ability, and the pathways, and the acceptance to allow other people to share as well without casting judgment.
Jeff Jones: Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Kim Sutton: Because you don’t want judgment cast upon you, you want to be able to share your feelings without being told that they’re wrong.
Jeff Jones: Yeah, absolutely. That is so important. What you said right there, I think everybody in a family I think wants what you just said. They want to be seen and heard, and their opinion, their perspective to be respected. Over and over again, we get the message that our perspective, or what we say is not being heard, or is not wanted. Or if someone is constantly correcting us, we’re probably going to change what we say and do and kind of put it under the table, and try to become something that I’m not which could lead to things like saying one thing and doing another. It could lead to lying, it could lead to warning sign behaviors for addiction. So lying, manipulation and stealing. Addiction is kind of like an incremental process. And the conversation we’re having here is at a very early stage and warning signs. I really want your listeners to know that there’s a lot of stages in this path. And so oftentimes, we don’t have these early stage conversations like what we’re having about basic things like communication, or having dinner together, or finding ways to connect and really listen to one another.
Kim Sutton: Jeff, I wasn’t planning on coming on this episode today and having family therapy, solo family therapy. But family therapy, all the same. But you just put me back at the kitchen table. You just put me back in my family, a significant lot more than I am. And listeners, I have five children. I am not saying that I don’t spend time with my kids or my husband, but it is so easy to get wrapped up in everything else and just lose sight of what’s most important. Our focus on our family starts slipping, it’s really easy to just lose grasp all together, and I’ve just had my eyes opened. So thank you.
Jeff Jones: Yeah, you’re welcome. So a couple things that I want to say, one, what I do online is I’m not like a therapist kind of role. I’m in a coach role. And that’s important for a number of different reasons.
Kim Sutton: Could you explain the difference to anybody who might not be clear?
Jeff Jones: Yeah. Well, I think one thing is, therapy is a professional relationship. There’s a very clear agreement, and it is in writing. And it would happen the first or second time when you meet a therapist and you’re trying to assess like, is this the right person for me? So there’s a legal part of it. And then also, therapy is largely, not entirely. But therapy is somewhat of a deficit model that uses diagnosis, kind of language and thinking from what’s called the DSM-5, Diagnostic Statistics Manual. So when we are talking to people and looking at people through the lens of diagnosis, it’s so easy for therapists to see deficits, to just look for deficits. So that’s what therapists are. That’s their responsibility. And especially if the insurance companies are involved, the therapist needs to give that individual a diagnosis for an insurance company to pay or decide how much they’re going to pay.
And with coaching, more or less, even though there may be an initial understanding of what all is going on, the majority of focus is, where do you want to go? What’s the future look like? And then in coaching, we kind of look at where a person wants to go? Where they’re at now? And then how do we navigate that space between the two. And that whole thinking process and the way the professional looks at it, coaching is more forward thinking. That said, if the coach sees someone looping, going round and round kind of thing, coaches are educated enough to look out for certain problems. And if they see something like that, they can request, hey, it’d be great to get a therapist on the team, to get a therapist on board. I mean, not always, but if the client wants that they can sign a release of information and to where the professionals can be on the same page and be working more together as opposed to just in opposite directions.
Kim Sutton: Yeah, thank you so much for providing that insight. I’m sure there’s listeners weren’t clear. I can see the difference because I’ve had therapists, I’ve had coaches there. And I can see the difference in how they worked. But you did an excellent job of really digging deep into it, and just explaining. What would you say is the top reason or the number one trigger, I can’t think of a better word than that right now, why most of your clients are coming to you right now. And that’s part one of the question. And number two, if there’s a listener who’s listening and it resonates with, how can they get in touch with you?
Jeff Jones: Sure. So why most clients come to me right now is, one of the things that I do is intervention. And the majority of calls that I get right now are around intervention. And so generally, people are at a much further along stage with addiction. Then the conversation that we just had about that was more about warning signs, catching things early and making changes early. By the time people are willing to reach out, they have probably tried numerous things. They have not worked. They’re irritated. They’re frustrated. They’re at the end of the rope.
So here’s an example, a grandmother who has a daughter, and her daughter has a daughter, and the daughter has gotten in trouble in another state or something. And the grandmother brings her into her house and provides a lot of place to live for her daughter and her granddaughter. Pretty much whatever they need. Because the grandmother, there’s a lot of love there. And I get that. But oftentimes, like in this example, the daughter has had some problems, for instance, with drinking. And those problems have happened over and over again. And what the grandmother is providing kind of takes the weight off of the daughter to actually feel the weight from the consequences of her behavior to were like buying her a car, providing her with a place to live and stuff like that makes it easy for the addiction pattern to continue even though the grandmother really wants her granddaughter safe. And her main motivation may be to keep her granddaughter safe. But then her daughter’s addiction problem or her relationship with alcohol is not a priority here. And it just gets worse, and it gets worse, and it gets worse.
So what I have done is I’ve strung together a number of facilitated processes that a family could learn about, start to understand and assess whether this is something they would want to do or not. And so what I call that, what I have is an online family recovery community, which I call The Deep Community, where people can sign up anonymously, learn a lot of information. I have a community chat where they can get some questions answered. They can connect with one another anonymously, like on a platform that has three chat rooms. Not like a Facebook thing where my Facebook identification is known. So what I’ve done here is to kind of create something where family members can reach out early and start to get information to where they can start making changes, and actually make changes before intervention is needed ideally.
Kim Sutton: I love that, and I love how you’re making it a safe place and anonymous.
Jeff Jones: Yeah, thank you. And people could find a lot. I mean, there’s a lot going on here. And I’m kind of like hitting the peaks. But people could find out more about it at thefamilyrecoverysolution.com. And there’s a lot of information there. And actually, someone can click on a button and schedule time with me, and have a conversation, and assess like, is this something that’s right for me? And the community itself is like $45 a month. They can share the username and password with everybody in their family, so everybody in their family can get on board with the same information. And when more than one person in the family starts to change, the system will change quicker.
Kim Sutton: Yeah, definitely. I can see so. Yeah, I love that. Listeners, if you’re driving or just unable to write that down right now, you’ll be able to find all of Jeff’s links in the show notes at thekimsutton.com/pp342. And Jeff, before I ask for your parting piece of advice or golden nugget, I’d love to invite you, the listeners, to share this episode, and also to rate and review it because I know that there’s a lot of families who would benefit greatly off the content that we’ve discussed today, and all the benefits enough to Jeff’s programs. You may not know who in your community could benefit. But by sharing, you would be doing them a favor. Jeff, thank you so much for joining me on Positive Productivity today. This has been an absolute pleasure. And as I already said, you’ve given me some action items that I need to take in my own house.
Jeff Jones: Wow. Well, thank you.
Kim Sutton: You’re welcome. Thank you. Do you have a parting piece of advice or a golden nugget that you could offer to listeners?
Jeff Jones: So one thing that I could say, to let everyone know here that addiction in the family is not rare. This happens all the time. And there is a way to change this early, there is hope. You are not alone. And this whole online situation is one way that people can start to engage early. Thank you.
