PP594: Protect Your Loved Ones by Planning Ahead for the Rough Times with Patrick Willis

“So many people who are struggling with death gets shut down by their friends if they try and talk about it… be prepared to open the conversation and have an honest conversation about death and about the future.”

There is no better security than preparation. We do everything to prepare for life but seldom do we remember to prepare for when it ends. On this episode of the Positive Productivity Podcast, Kim Sutton and Patrick Willis chat about why this is necessary for you to protect your family and yourself now and in the future. Plan ahead.


01:43 A Walk to Remember
07:58 What to Say to the Downtrodden
13:28 Plan Ahead
19:14 Getting’ Ready to Roll
27:23 Follow Your Heart
35:29 Work at Your Peak Time
40:17 Talk It Out

Death is inevitable. Don’t be afraid to talk about it. Be prepared for it. @thekimsutton chats with Patrick Willis about planning ahead in this episode of the #positiveproductivity #podcast: https://www.thekimsutton.com/pp594Click To Tweet

Connect with Patrick Willis:

Website: https://unfinishedbusiness.life/
LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/patwillis



How to Talk to Anyone: 92 Little Tricks for Big Success in Relationships by Leil Lowndes
The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment by Eckhart Tolle


“If people don’t know how to deal with that, don’t know how to cope, sometimes they step away.” –Patrick Willis

“Saying sorry for a death and someone else’s family isn’t necessarily the right words.” -Kim Sutton 

“If you try and be positive all the time, put this sort of brave face on it, you don’t allow yourself to process on the difficult emotions that you’re going to need to process. You push them down and storm up for later.” –Patrick Willis

“Sometimes that big old, messy, disgusting cry is really what’s necessary.”  -Kim Sutton

“We don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow. Pray for the best, prepare for the worst.” –Kim Sutton

“If you try and base your life on things you think you “should care” about, you’ll never follow through.” –Patrick Willis

“There’s more to it than the price tag associated with everything in our life. Because the higher the price tag does not mean the happier we are.” –Kim Sutton

“Some people, when their options become more limited… actually become more appreciative of the few things they can do.” –Patrick Willis

“Why not start today? You don’t have to wait till something bad happens to appreciate what you’ve got now.” –Patrick Willis



“70 people who are struggling with death gets shut down by their friends. If they try and talk about it, they say, no, let’s be positive, so I’d encourage you to not just ignore that, but to be prepared to open the conversation, and have an honest conversation about death and about the future.”



Kim Sutton: Welcome back to another episode of Positive Productivity. I am so happy to have you here and just based off the precheck alone, I am thrilled to introduce our guest today, Patrick Willis. Patrick is the director of Unfinished Business and has quite a backstory to share, but oh my gosh, we’ve already been having a blast. We’ve been poking fun at the names that people in our families get called, including Pat.–

Patrick Willis: Oh, yeah.

Kim Sutton: –Oh my gosh. Yeah, I know we’re gonna have a blast, but Patrick, welcome so much to Positive Productivity. I’m so happy to have you here.

Patrick Willis: Thank you, Kim. Thank you so much for having me, it says privilege.

Kim Sutton: Oh my gosh. And all of that was only one sip of coffee for the whole day so far. Could you believe that? Listeners,–

Patrick Willis: (laughs) Let’s put again.

Kim Sutton: –I know, listeners, I just have to tell you, I made Patrick wait like two minutes so I could go get my coffee, and podcasting really does give a high, that’s all that I can say about that. But Pat, what do you mind sharing where you came from, and how you got to where you are today along with a little bit about what you do, because you know your story better than anybody else.

Patrick Willis: Yeah, sure. Absolutely. I mean, if people have heard Unfinished Business, they’d probably kind of wondering, given what that is. I mean essentially what I–

Kim Sutton: It sound like the story of my life (laughs).

Patrick Willis: –Yeah, a lot of that, that’s very true. But this came to me, I was literally out walking by myself. I’ve been, and I got a lot to think, and pray, and meditate in this crazy idea. Just dropped in my head and like a stony, my shoot would not go away. And my background is I’m an engineer, I’m an IT guy, I’ve been a Corporate Executive, and I got tired of the corporate drone and thought, how can I use my skills to make a bit of a difference in the world? And this idea came in my head. Wouldn’t it be amazing if I could help people who’d received a life threatening, or a terminal diagnosis? And I thought that’s crazy. I wouldn’t even know where to start with that, but it wouldn’t go away, can be just, with this idea would just not go away, I tell you. So then I started to look at what it would take to do that? And realize that, who is there to help you grab your hand when you walk out of the doctor’s office, if you’ve got that kind of diagnosis, help you deal with your family, your friends, your difficult thoughts, and help you focus on what matters. And I thought, why not me?

Kim Sutton: Wow, that is so powerful. So you’re out walking, this thought hits you, but I’m curious, had anybody in your family, or close to you just been diagnosed? I mean, do you have any idea where this inspiration came from?

Patrick Willis: It’s an obvious question. I all kind of, pretty much every book I’ve read on the subject since the person, their backstory is exactly that, but mine is, things like, yeah, I mean things have had my life, my wife had breast cancer and she’s recovered and so forth. My parents both died. I’ve been through it, but that really wasn’t it. I think you just came from, just working out really where I could make a huge difference in the world. And it came out of nowhere. Literally Kim, this idea came out of nowhere. It wasn’t anything I was aiming towards at all until the past two years. It’s become my absolute passion.

Kim Sutton: I absolutely love that. So in 2016, I don’t know if you’ve heard this, Patrick, and for listeners who have heard it before, you know, I have a tendency to repeat stories. Just bear with me. And in 2016 I had entered a period of severe sleep deprivation and in July of 2016, I found myself suicidal. And up until that point, I thought that my purpose, that my passion was all about digital marketing and building funnels, and just helping clients get themselves out there.–

Patrick Willis: Aha.

Kim Sutton: –But in that very moment where I had my Aha, and quite literally my come to Jesus moment, I realized that was not my purpose. Like my purpose was actually to help other entrepreneurs not get to that point that I was at by helping them set up the systems that they needed to avoid getting there. Like give them sleep back. As I said, I was sleep deprived. I had been sleeping two to three hours a night for 18 months and there’s no reason why we need to build our business like that. So

Patrick Willis: –That’s crazy.

Kim Sutton: –Yeah. But so many entrepreneurs do it. And finally it was like light dawns on marble head. That’s still, you know, now I see how what I was doing before meshed with this new found passion. It all works together. Like I can better explain why it’s that important to me. So I don’t care where the idea came from. Like, I think that could have sound mean, but I didn’t mean it, mean at all. But you’ve been through it, when it deeply roots in your soul like that, that’s just like, ah, I hear ya, I can’t go get it now.

Patrick Willis: No, I’ve had a similar journey to you Kim, again, I bet techie, I can do all the funnel stuff. I can build on my own stuff and I have done it for other people, but I started doing it and thought, man, I can do this, but you know, I’m not that passionate about it particularly. And then suddenly I am. But it’s interesting, I was listening to one of your guests, Daniel Gomez I think, and he said: “When his wife was diagnosed with breast cancer,”he said: “it was like being hit by an 18 wheeler.”–

Kim Sutton: Yup.

Patrick Willis: –And I thought, you know, I can help people who are in that space and it’s just so exciting.

Kim Sutton: Oh my gosh, you two should connect. I can connect you.–

Patrick Willis: Ehmm.

Kim Sutton: –I mean, can’t even imagine. I mean, well, you two have both been through it with your wife’s, and so many other husbands,or significant others have been through with their wife. It’s not crazy, but I know that breast cancer, you know, even men can get it.

Patrick Willis: –Yeah, yeah, 4% I believe.

Kim Sutton: Yeah. So it’s not, that’s not even talking about all the other different types of cancers, and unfortunately there are people who were just pick up and leave because they don’t know how to handle it, which I think is, personally, I think it’s disgusting. I just got to say, but it does happen regardless of whether you’re the spouse or you’re the patient, there’s support that’s necessary because who knows what to do, and what to say, and what another day is gonna bring.

Patrick Willis: Yeah. Most people don’t. I guess there were a time when I would’ve been in that position, so I decided when this idea came to me, I kind of had to face it head on. So I just got up and volunteered in the Hospice as part of the spiritual care team, and started meeting, you know, people who were dying very regularly and found out that it was not, it was something I could do, learn to do. Well. I’ve kind of had to test it in a way though, but I feel a lot of them, you talked to them. Some of their friends just don’t know how to handle it. So some draw closer, and other people who were close step away and that’s not the person’s fault at all. That’s just that the friend’s inability to cope.

Kim Sutton: I don’t feel proud to admit this, but I suffered a lot, or I went through a lot of infertility myself, and then one of my sisters went through the same, and even though I’d already been through it before she went through it, I didn’t know how to support her.–

Patrick Willis: Hmm.

Kim Sutton: –So I feel bad now, especially in the midst of this conversation. I stepped back and didn’t say anything and I wasn’t there, and I just can’t imagine, you know I probably wasn’t the only one. But that’s got to just feel so bad. So I wanna ask, so Patrick, are you only working with terminally ill, like cancer patients? Or what about people who face disabilities that were unexpected? I mean, I have to say, I’m thinking about my husband. He was in the air force and got injured, and it’s changed his life forever.

Patrick Willis: Well, I’d guess you will asked that. I don’t know, I’m pretty flexible in the whole, I mean, I’ve done quite a bit of coaching in my background, and I just figured this is what I should be really focusing my time on. But when you look at areas like disability, there’s a lot in common in terms of an immediate trauma. In some cases, people feel numb depending on what they’ve done that can feel guilty for the lifestyle choices they’ve made, or angry that they’ve been made really good choices and it hasn’t paid off. And so a lot of the same, the same emotional issues come into play. So yeah, I deal with people who are in different places on their journey. And again, it’s the same what you say with the friends. Again, if people don’t know how to deal with that, don’t know how to cope, sometimes step away. In fact, I did. I got, this is such a common problem. I actually did a Youtube video about here, send a link, tell this to your friends. This is a tutorial for them on how to talk to you.

Kim Sutton: I think as soon necessary though, I mean, I’m thinking when friends or family members, close people have died, that was not the best way to put in that, but when there’s a death with someone I know,I often don’t know what to say, so I used to just not say anything.

Patrick Willis: Hmm.

Kim Sutton: But now I just say: “I’m sending you hugs.” Because to me, I’m sorry, it wasn’t necessarily the best thing. Okay, I grew up way too close to Canada, and I’m just gonna say blame Canada. I know that’s not really an appropriate use of humor there.–

Patrick Willis: Your accent kind of gives that away.

Kim Sutton: –So I said: “Sorry.” Way too much, I still say sorry. In my opinion way too much. But I realize that saying sorry for a death and someone else’s family isn’t necessarily, you know, the right words, there’s gotta be better words. And then I was reading a book, or listening to a podcast and somebody said: “The best thing that you could possibly say is, how are you doing today?”

Patrick Willis: –Today? That’s exactly right. Yeah.

Kim Sutton: –Yeah.

Patrick Willis: –Absolutely.

Kim Sutton: –And that was a pivotal, and that was just in the past couple of months. I never thought about that. You know, asking how are you doing? Is a loaded question, but asking somebody how they’re doing in this very moment. Wow. Brings it down and you can better support them.

Patrick Willis: –Yeah. You’ve got it Kim, that’s the very first thing I learned when I started doing home visiting in the hospice, it’s the very first thing I learned. Today, it’s really powerful.

Kim Sutton: –Yeah, yeah. Even for my husband, I mean, so my husband, he ruptured one of his discs and he needed another one. So while he used to do martial arts, he can barely walk across the floor without those knees buckling now. So asking him something like, how are you doing? I have to say, and I’m not trying to, you know, pick on my husband’s day, but it gets him down a lot because, very much like a terminal illness, I mean a part of him died.

Patrick Willis: –Yeah, your mourning that ,absolutely.

Kim Sutton: –Yeah, he can no longer do the things that he wants to do. He wants to pick up the kids and he knows he can’t. He knows he can, but he knows he’s gonna pay the price later because he’s going to get that fire shooting down his back and his leg.

Patrick Willis: –Yeah.

Kim Sutton: –So asking him a question like, how are you doing? Just on some of those days you are not going to get a good answer at all. But if I asked him, how are you doing today? Like he’s a video game designer now, and he might be very excited about, you know, the art that he just created, or it brings it all back to now.

Patrick Willis: That was really powerful. That is really powerful. Can I share a really related–

Kim Sutton: Please.

Patrick Willis: –thing that comes up, I’ve heard this so many times from people who have a disability to terminal illness as well, is this, this people just come in and go, all you gotta be positive, you gotta be positive, you gotta be positive. Now I know the name of your podcast is Positive Productivity, and there’s some really good things about being upbeat in specific positive emotions. But if you’re naturally angst and you don’t feel positive, and someone saying: “Gee, you must be positive, be positive.” Yes, you can make yourself worse, cause then you feel anxious about not being positive, which might make you worse. Then you feel more anxious, and you get this real negative cycle and sometimes you don’t. If you’re trying to be positive all the time, put this sort of brave face on it. You don’t allow yourself to process some of the difficult emotions that you’re gonna need to process. You’d push them down a storm up for later.

Kim Sutton: I love that you brought that up. Yes, the name of my podcast is Positive Productivity, and in most cases, I am not a crier. In most cases, on most days you can find me in a pretty positive state. And to some people they might find it very annoying. But there are those days when I am, I’ve dealt with anxiety, I still deal with anxiety. And my husband actually called me out on it last night and he said: “It sounds like you’re looking at the glass as half empty.” That was not what I needed to hear that moment (laughs).

Patrick Willis: (laughs).

Patrick Willis: So why is it husbands can always put their foot on that? I don’t know, we all do it, we all do it.

Kim Sutton: No, there was some choice words that I really wanted to say, but I was just like, well, I’m not, it is a glass half empty, because you just need to let me get over like what’s going on right now? And sometimes that big old messy, disgusting cry is really what’s necessary.

Kim Sutton: Yeah, yeah. totally, yeah.

Kim Sutton: Yeah. So what does this journey look like for you? So I mean it’s been, what, two years now? You’ve been going through this, but how, how do you take this idea that you don’t know where it came from and make something tangible from it?

Patrick Willis: Yeah, it took me a while and I’m still, I mean, I’m still on a journey with it really. I’m kind of just starting to build my practice up now and there’s really two parts to it. And when I started, I didn’t quite know what it would look like. I just thought, well, okay, I’ve got a lot of the skills already, I need to fill some gaps in my skill base. So I started reading everything I could find in the end of life instead of, started working in the local hospice and so forth. For the hardest bit, you know, when the baby came, you probably had something similar, letting go of everything else, so I can make real time to do this. But when I first saw the pain, that’s people are going through. I thought, I have to, I have to do this because in the 21st century west, it’s so hard people to hear they might be dying. So we can comfortably ignore it until it’s too late. Sorry, I’m getting off topic there horribly, horribly off topic.

Kim Sutton: That’s okay. That happens constantly on the Positive Productivity Podcast.

Patrick Willis: Yeah, yeah. So anyway, I’ve come down really now to two things I promote an offer, and I do lots of other stuff. There you go, I still build a lot of websites and funnels for people in odd moments, but I’m generally coming down now to two really core offers, one of which is, one on one coaching for people who had again, have walked out of the doctor’s office with a difficult diagnosis, and again it might be terminal, it might just be, you know, a long term chronic illness, or I haven’t done anybody with disability you’re talking about that would fall into that category. And secondly, I’m almost promoting more death awareness as well. So there’s a whole bunch of stuff now that anybody, regardless of their, how healthy they are, their age thing, they should do to protect themselves and their families against their unexpected deaths. No, none of us know how long we kind of live. And so this naturally falls into the end of life stuff, but I started to realize that it’s so important for everybody to not just have a a wheel, but a whole bunch of other stuff around planning end of life. So you’re not, you don’t leave a huge mess for your family if you die unexpectedly. So that’s my two offers, said it’s two things I’m really putting out at the moment.

Kim Sutton: Oh my gosh. So your dad a five, I’m the mom of five.–

Patrick Willis: (laughs).

Kim Sutton: –I actually just admitted this on another reason episode, but I don’t have a well-prepared. I don’t have a power of attorney. I don’t have a medical proxy or any like, I don’t even know the right words. I have nothing of that prepared.

Patrick Willis: I’ll send you a link to my quiz, then you can do it and I’d only be slightly worried when you see the outcome, but it does have some helpful hints and tips on how to get started as well.

Kim Sutton: What is the outcome going to be? You failed this test.–

Patrick Willis: That was the initial one and a couple of friends that’s been, now you already have to word it differently to that. So yeah, so now it’s worded very positively with some encouragement of the first steps you could take (laughs).

Kim Sutton: Oh, Patrick, that goes back to what we were just talking about. But do we really need to be coddling people who don’t have their stuff set up? And that was the nice way of putting it because seriously, I could go out tomorrow and you know, just be going through the intersection and somebody who’s playing on their phone hit me like, I don’t mean to be negative on that, but it could happen.

Patrick Willis: Probably a year ago it nearly happened to us, I was waiting for the lights, my wife was driving, I was in the passenger seat, and the light turned green and I had done something at the corner by just said, Erica stop. And so she stopped, the guy behind his hump two seconds later, this guy about 40 miles an hour go straight across the intersection. It was, she would have probably both been dead.

Kim Sutton: Oh my goodness. I got goosebumps just thinking about that. My stepmother maybe 20 yeah, I guess it would have been 20 years ago. I can’t believe it’s been that many years ago when I was in college, but she, she was driving and the sun was either rising or setting, so it was in that really–

Patrick Willis: Hmm. now you know.

Kim Sutton: –place in the sky where you’ve got the glare. You can’t necessarily see the cars on the road, and she saw it. She thought that the, it wasn’t an interstate, but she thought the county road where people could go, you know, 60 miles an hour, I don’t know what that would equal in kilometers, but they can go fast. She thought it was clear. So she pulled out, and she was in a Ford Mustang and an SUV broadsided her, and the Mustang was completely destroyed. She had broken everything, basically she lived, but we don’t know. We don’t know what’s gonna happen tomorrow. Pray for the best. Prepare for the worst, right?

Patrick Willis: Yup. That’s it, yeah. It’d be a good approach to absolutely. Great approach.

Kim Sutton: Listeners, I am gonna ask you to keep me accountable to get all this set up quickly. Please, you can keep on commenting on every single podcast until you hear an all clear, I’ve got it done.

Patrick Willis: I will be on your game as well. I will be, I’ll send you the link and you can, you’ll get the list, you’ll get the tick list of things that they say.

Kim Sutton: Thank you. What makes you most passionate about what you are doing? And what are you most excited about in the next 30 days?

Patrick Willis: Oh, well I should excited. There’s a couple of things. One of which is, you know I mentioned this quiz that I’ve got for preparing for end of life. I’m just putting a training behind it now that will basically walk people through all the pieces they have to do. And so I’m really excited about getting that finished, and then in the can as it were. So it’ll still, it’ll probably go out live with first time I do it, but in the next 30 days my goal is to get that ready to roll. I’m really excited about that and generally speaking, I’m just so excited. Again, if anyone who’s done coaching will know that when you get a client and they just, something just goes are high in them. And I was [inaudible] with a client for, I got on this call, I thought I’d really sent you and I owe you. I’ll be making, you know, we’re making a difference here. And he says: “I speak great, and unless these two or three things, I’ve just really impacted his life.” And to me there’s nothing greater than than that. That’s just fantastic.

Kim Sutton: I want to thank you for what you’re doing and I’m not wrapping up this episode, but so necessary. I can’t even imagine, and I’m just gonna put this out there. I’ve had a couple of cancer scares, never anything that was, you know, positive. No, let me try this. Say that again, the test results came back positive in the good way, that I was negative for cancer.–

Patrick Willis: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kim Sutton: –Yeah, I don’t know the right way of saying that, but I think the point was across, and that was a moment that was more than a few moments actually. If I’m going to be honest of sheer panic of, oh my gosh, now I can’t even imagine and I pray that I won’t ever have to go through that, so many people, including the number of listeners are going through of, what happens if it doesn’t come back with a good result? But I know that you are in the countryside, how are you taking this to a bigger level? And are you finding any challenges for working internationally? Like do you have to worry about any, I know you’re not, you’re not an attorney or an accountant that I know of, but are you wording stuff? And I know I’m rambling here, but learning stuff, you know, contact your attorney, contact your accountant to make sure that you’ve got it set up because, oh my gosh, like I, I’m putting out some template contracts for virtual assistants to use and I’m having to be mindful, you know, this is just a template, you need to put this past to your attorney.

Patrick Willis: Oh yeah, I’ve got the disclaimer on my website. Yeah, exactly, cause essentially what I’m doing is working across, what would push onto legal ground? What would put onto health grounds? And what would push onto therapist grounds? And all of the above. And so my goal is to be knowledgeable enough about all those areas to coach people, and then know when to refer them on something more specialist. And that’s my goal and all of this because again, for most of it, even if it’s something they say, like creating a healthcare directive, every state in the US has got a template online. You can download and do it for free. You don’t need to pay anybody to do it. But, and I can then help people with that, and question them about what they’re putting in and so forth without needing medical qualification. Well, I can’t then do his diagnosis and stuff like that clearly. So I’ve made it very clear where my, where my line is. I do specialize in the US root, even know I’m a Brit. You’ve probably figured that out from my accent. But I used to live in the states, and I love the people. I love the lifestyle and a lot of the things about that, and I felt a real affinity to do that. Especially, I think there’s less safety nets, and there isn’t some parts of the world where I work and live, and I just feels more and more needful to provide some of that support.

Kim Sutton: I want to jump topics just for a moment, considering you are a father of five, and I am a mom of five, and you made a career transition. How has your transition affected the advice that you’re giving to your children as far as their future careers?

Patrick Willis: That’s really interesting. It was earlier today, I was actually having a coaching session with my middle son (laughs). he’s 23 now I think, yeah. And we were actually having a conversation about, you know, what really mattered in life?, And what his values were? And so my background, I was very techie, I was very introverted, very quiet, and my wife’s trained me over the years to be more, more outgoing and I fill the gaps in that. And so it’s very much changed me as a person from just sorting some techie problems out to making a real difference in people’s lives, which is something that I’ve, a lot of it has been fresh learning for me really. Which hasn’t benefits is that ,I have to do things very deliberately. I don’t, I’ve had to be very deliberate on what I do. But years ago, I did this detailed story quite a bit to my friends, but I had a book called, it’s called, How To Talk To Anyone, like your guide for parties. My wife looked at me and said: “What’d you do that for?”, “It’s obvious.”, “Well, yeah, it’s obvious for you, but some of the rest of us, it’s a whole science we haven’t learned.” (laughs)

Kim Sutton: I resonate with that completely, despite the fact that I am the host of this podcast. I am also an introvert, and I feel so awkward in big events, like, what do I say?, What do I say? In a lot of the times I would just not say anything because I’m like, I’m going to say something stupid. So I better just keep my mouth shut.

Patrick Willis: What total tangent, I highly recommend it. It’s a book called How To Talk To Anyone, Lisle, loud, does it? L-O-W-D-E-S, I think, yeah, that’s a great book. (How to Talk to Anyone by Leil Lowndes)

Kim Sutton: We are gonna have to find that for the show notes, which by the way listeners you can find at thekimsutton.com/PP594, but yeah, that will be in there. So my husband, he claims to be an introvert, and I’ve heard him on phone calls. He’ll give people like two minutes and then he’ll say he has to go (laughs), cause he just can’t stand being on the phone. But you wouldn’t necessarily believe it because he’s like, in person, his extremely loud, and I’m quite the opposite. But as far as, like in private, he’s very quiet, and if he doesn’t know the people he’s very quiet.–

Patrick Willis: Yeah.

Kim Sutton: –But I have learned in the last seven years how to become, I don’t want to say louder, but more vocal, and more expressive, and more confident in the words that come out of my mouth. I mean he’s a video game designer, and I was a gamer before we even got together. So he got me into one of the games that he was in, and I’m just using this as an example, but we started doing grades, which is basically 20 people going together and fighting the big bad guy.

Patrick Willis: –(laughs).

Kim Sutton: –And, I needed to get onto this platform that we’re using, and do voice chat with the people so we could all coordinate who was doing what, and I was so uncomfortable. I had never been on a podcast. I had never been on a Skype call. I had certainly never talked to anybody online before, which is hilarious because my husband and I actually met on Craigslist, but I was so scared. And now look, I mean your episode 594, who would have thought that

Patrick Willis: –Wow.

Kim Sutton: –You know, less than a decade ago I was afraid to get behind a mike of any kind, and they couldn’t hear me there. They kept on saying: “We can’t hear you, we can’t hear you. You need to speak up.” And it’s not because my microphone setting weren’t right. It was because I was not putting any volume into my voice because

Patrick Willis: –Yeah.

Kim Sutton: –I did not want to be heard.

Patrick Willis:   Yeah, I got it.

Kim Sutton: So I want to go back to your conversation with your son. Well, I’m just gonna put out there first. One of my oldest son is 16, and I asked him: “What he was thinking about doing?” You know, after high school, because that’s only a short two years away.–

Patrick Willis: Yeah.

Kim Sutton: –And he said: “Hold up, I was thinking about going to school for accounting.” Which I have to be totally honest, it instantly made me want to puke

Patrick Willis: –(laughs).

Kim Sutton: –because there’s nothing that sounds more boring to me. But I asked him, I said: “Why do you want to do that?” And I said it very nicely. I didn’t say it with any tone. He’s like: “Well I’ve heard they make a lot of money.” And I was like, okay, let’s try this again. “If it weren’t about money, what do you want to do?” He said: “Oh, I wanna be a major league baseball umpire.” Coach or umpire.

Patrick Willis: –(laughs).

Kim Sutton: –It’s like, okay, so let’s go for that instead. He’s like: “Why?” I was like: “Because I want you to be happy. I don’t care about the money. The money will come.”.

Patrick Willis: –Yup.

Kim Sutton: –So when like, with your son, and I’m sorry this is being really nosy, have you had to show your kids, or are you trying to show your kids that it’s okay to follow purpose, or passion, or whatever’s on your heart?

Patrick Willis: Absolutely, yeah, yeah. That’s been a real theme, and things like that, I mean, you probably seen this with your kids, they’re all totally different. They’re really, they’re so different in terms of what they’re looking out of life. And when I go with my son, I started building this, actually started with values. I did check just a long list of his, people values, people hold from things like accountability, being healthy when it was this about sort of 50 of these things. And he went through it, and he actually wrote down some things that he cared about, and things that he should care about. And I said: “No, I’m interested in what you think you should care about. I’m interested in what you actually care about.” And I said: “If you try and base your life on things you think you colleagues should care about, you’ll never follow through.

Kim Sutton: Oh my goodness, I love that, I absolutely love that. So my 13 year old is pretty popular, and we actually got into it last week, like I yelled at him because he wanted to go to see some friends. And listeners, you’ve heard this before. I drive a 1996 GMC conversion van and it is not pretty, but that is something that I don’t care about. It runs, I don’t have to put any money into except for gas, it works. It doesn’t need to be pretty. It gets me from point A to point B, and he got mad because I was pulling into the parking lot and getting closer to his friends. He’s like: “Stop, stop, stop.”–

Patrick Willis: Oh, no, the lights, the lights, the booth, that’s a movie clip, doesn’t it? That’s a movie clip.

Kim Sutton: –I’m like: “What?” He’s like: “Just let me off here.” I’m like: “Are you serious?” Like: “So you’re gonna be embarrassed about this band networks?” He’s like: “Yes.” I’m like: “Okay, well then let me tell Ya. If your friends are gonna judge you on the type of vehicle that your mom drives, then they probably shouldn’t be your friends.” Yeah, and this is like a recurring theme because, and I’ve told him, he’s like: When are you gonna get a new car?” I’m like: “Well, what are you gonna pay for it?” Seriously dude.

Patrick Willis: –(laughs).

Kim Sutton: –It’s like, there’s more to it than the price tag associated with everything in our life, because the higher the price tag does not mean happier than we are.

Patrick Willis: Yeah, that’s totally right. I mean it’s like only if you ever, you know, you leave, put your arm on the desk, and after 10 minutes you don’t feel the desk anymore cause your arm hasn’t moved. The same with anything in life, anything, any standards you get in a thing, you can get a new car, or new anything after you’ve had it for a while, you kind of, it’s just part of life. It doesn’t make you any happier at all. It’s only stepping back and appreciating what you currently have that will actually make any difference to your level of genuine happiness.

Kim Sutton: Oh my gosh, yes. I used to think I’ll be happier when I have more money, and that was like the recurring loop in my head. I’ll be happier when I have more money, and I would love to know on what date it happened, but it was like I got hit in the head with a plank. It’s like, really? Are you not happy now? And I realized I am happy now. So does it take more money, or can you be happy eating ramen? Oh, I, you know, I really can be happy eating ramen. I am happy eating ramen. Okay, well let’s just go with that then.

Patrick Willis: Oh, this comes up a lot with end of life stuff as we already, because some people when their options become more limited terms of what they could do and what they can eat, actually become more appreciative of the fewer things they can do. You don’t know what you’ve got that until it’s gone. And they go, wow, well actually what have I got? Well, I still got this. I can still have a cool glass of water and it tastes great, you know? So it’s fascinating how that happens. And so I say to people, why not start today? You know, you don’t have to wait until something bad happens to appreciate what you’ve got now.

Kim Sutton: Oh my gosh. Have you read the Power Of Now?

Patrick Willis: Yeah, the Eckhart Tolle, yah.

Kim Sutton: Yes. I’m working my way through like six books right now and that is one of them. And it’s just been so eye opening for me, and I tried to teach it, this is not the pick on my husband episode, but I was trying to explain to him how we are watchers of our own thoughts. He didn’t get it at first because I honestly don’t know if he gets it yet, but I’ve found myself when I get into those ruts, now I find myself, reminding myself to take a step back and watch them.–

Patrick Willis: Yeah, yeah.

Kim Sutton: –And it’s so much easier, yeah.

Patrick Willis: I’ve been studying a lot lately of something called ACT, it’a a form of, co-form of CBT called Acceptance Commitment Therapy in it. It’s very, very much about stepping back and looking at those difficult thoughts, rather than trying to push them away. Just recognizing their, they’re not controlling. You don’t have to be hooked to them.

Kim Sutton: Yes, yes. In 2009 I was introduced to a chiropractor through local networking group, and I went in for a free adjustment, and he quickly became a good friend, but he introduced me to the law of attraction and up until that point I had a dark cloud over my head, 24/7–

Patrick Willis: Wow.

Kim Sutton: –And I didn’t realize that, I am the one person who can decide if I’m happy or not.

Patrick Willis: Yeah.

Kim Sutton: It doesn’t matter what’s going on. And listeners, you’ve heard me talk about when we were going through a financial struggle, the water was shut off and on that day it snowed. So we still laugh about it, we laughed about it that day. My husband told the kids to go outside and get some stone, put it into the toilet so that mom could still go pee inside, but because their boys, they could go outside, you know, but we had a choice that day. Do we get pissed off, and stressed, and scared because we didn’t have money to pay for it right at that very second, or do we laugh at it, enjoy it, and make it into a story that we can share at Thanksgiving 30 years in the future.

Patrick Willis: I was wondering another one of your guests, Matthew Ferry, I think it was. I think he’d said, yeah: “Just to admit, your mind isn’t your friend, it’s a survival mechanism.” (laughs)

Kim Sutton: Yes. If it is our friend that it sure lies a lot.

Patrick Willis: Yeah, yeah. No, it might tell lots of stories that just aren’t true, and the ability to step back and diffuse yourself, and hook yourself for those difficult thoughts and feelings, and then narratives is so powerful.

Kim Sutton: Absolutely. Patrick, how’s your life changed since you started your business?

Patrick Willis: Oh, it’s immensely. Sorry, I used to be a, you know, five years ago. I was a corporate drone, and I was kind of happy with that level. But when I started think of business of myself, I suddenly had to find new resources. I had to find the ability to get up in the morning and motivate myself, and that was quite a challenge at first. Now I’ve got structures I use and that works for me, but it’s been a big change and also it’s deepen my faith. I think I’m a Christian and it’s really take me back to my faith to go back and say, you know, I just need to, you know, I need to pray about that again, and just check it’s the right thing to do. And so I’ve had more and more kind of day to day out of our decisions that are up in mind to make, but before I just, you know, you kind of punch in and you do your stuff when you go home. That’s really stretched me and really, really encouraged me I think in my life journey plus as well a pair of mission. I think I’ve probably moved out of the corporate because, I wanted the lifestyle business, but what I found was a real, why? A real passionate.

Kim Sutton: Absolutely. Now I have to ask though, are you spending more time in your work now than you were before?

Patrick Willis: I am trying not to (laughs).

Kim Sutton: –(laughs) Yes.

Patrick Willis: I keep a timesheet so my wife can check on me. I was fortunate enough to have a very good contract about 18 months ago, which has, it gives me some financial space to give this the time to make it work, but yeah, I am really trying (laughs).

Kim Sutton: That’s awesome. Yeah, it was maybe two or three years ago. I don’t have a date, but my husband said to me, he’s like, I see more of the back of your head than I do of your face. And that was, that was an eye opener for me. Because he saw more of me when I was working outside of the home, than he was at that moment with me working and sit down and okay, this is a cheat, but I turned around my desk, so if he comes into the office now, he actually does see my face (laughs), but I’m still working on that. I’m still working.

Patrick Willis: I don’t know about you, but sometimes you have to hide away and get the flow, and flow and you could probably do more in an hour, or two, or four flow than you can in five or six hours of having the laptop while you’re trying to watch TV at the same time, which is just so unproductive.

Kim Sutton: Oh, my gosh, yeah. Oh there’s that pain sometimes of just trying to get through one, one hour training and when you don’t do it at the right time of day, and I’d love to know what your peak performance time is for yourself, but if I don’t do those activities that really need my full attention first thing in the morning that I know that my, my brain capacity and my attention span is not gonna be there. I mean I’ve had a half a cup of coffee so far, but you wouldn’t have even known it just when we jumped in, and you wouldn’t have known it based on the recording that I did before yours because this is my peak performance time, but by–

Patrick Willis: Hmm.

Kim Sutton: –like, my sister is part of my team now, and sometimes we’ll get on a call late at night and I can barely, and it sounds like I’m drunk, I’m not drunk, but I’m just way past that point of being able to do anything effectively. It’s like, look, if you want training or if you need details, we need to do this earlier in the day.

Patrick Willis: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I think it’s pretty common. Yeah, I’m pretty similar.–

Kim Sutton: You’re similar.

Patrick Willis: Yeah. I do sort of 9-12 in the morning, and then if I want to carry on I mean, taking the choice of business over , you can do your own schedule, so I kind of go to the gym at lunchtime and just take an hour or two, often to just refresh then go back.–

Kim Sutton: Yeah.

Patrick Willis: That often really useful, but yeah, I have to, if I just do a little bit of planning at the start of the day and make sure that I know when I’m going to be working, when I’ve shared with some breaks in, it’s just so much more effective than just sitting down at the computer switch. You don’t want to say, oh, what should I do now?

Kim Sutton: I love that you said schedule your breaks in. Actually, I got a pop up on my computer about exactly 18 minutes ago reminding me to get up, because I will easily find myself sitting at my desk for hours, and then all of a sudden I get up because I have to get up for something else and I’ll realize, and sorry for the TMI, but I’m like, oh my gosh, I haven’t gone pee for eight hours.–

Patrick Willis: Yeah, yeah, (laughs) absolutely, yeah.

Kim Sutton: –And all of a sudden my bladder is like in my toes. Note, people that I did not say on my toes.

Patrick Willis: –(laughs).

Kim Sutton: –but I’m like, I didn’t even realize because I’ve been so in it, that I haven’t even taken those little breaks for self care.

Patrick Willis: Well, that’s impressive. You can do that for eight hours. I totally, I can do that for eight hours. Yeah.

Kim Sutton: It was a joke growing up that I was the one in my family who could get from western New York all the way down to Florida without like, they knew they didn’t have to wake me up at the rest stops. That was a 27 hour drive.

Patrick Willis: Wow.

Kim Sutton: I can’t do that anymore. Getting older means that you can’t go 27 hours. But yeah, it was just a joke with my family, let her sleep. You don’t wake me up when I’m sleeping, it’s a bad thing if you wake me up, yeah. Well Patrick, this has been amazing. I love that you are helping people who are going through those tough times as well as preparing them for their rough times. Where can listeners find you online connecting, get to know more.

Patrick Willis: So the best thing is to go to my website, which is unfinishedbusiness.life.com, had gone, I couldn’t buy it. Say it’s unfinishedbusiness.life is the best way to find me, and then there’ll be a direct link on there to a quiz, which you can take straight away for, How ready are you? And also if anybody who’s particularly in need, or perhaps they’re in the place where they would have literally walked out of the doctor’s office with it them or a loved one with her where they’re already difficult diagnosis, you can schedule an appointment with me to speak to me, and we can explore together if we could be working together. So they are both on my website and ads for easy to do, and you’re very welcome to do that.

Kim Sutton: Awesome. So unfinishedbusiness.life, but listener, if you are driving, please don’t go while you are driving. If you’re trying not to fall off the exercise equipment, if you’re trying not to burn dinner, go when you have a chance to thekimsutton.com, I did it again last night, I burnt the french fries. Thekimsutton.com/PP594, you know what it is? So Patrick, my attention is in so many other places, like I start getting ideas when I’m cooking and I’m like, oh, I can just take a quick second, go look this on, or go look at this. And then that quick second turns into 15 minutes and all of a sudden, you know, I started smelling the smoke and I realize, oh, there it goes again. So it’s just better for my family if I don’t cook.

Patrick Willis: Then you go back to reading The Power Of Now, and being Mindful Cooking.

Kim Sutton: Oh, I think I’ll just let, I do, it’s my husband’s genius zone it’s better if we stay in our genius zones, right?

Patrick Willis: Why Rice? Sweet, good clap.

Kim Sutton: Yeah, well this has been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us. I would love a few share of golden nugget or a parting piece of advice with the listeners.

Patrick Willis: Okay, maybe just a myth about dying, which is, where people have got a silly idea that talking about it makes it more likely to happen. And when I say it like that, it does sound a bit silly, but here’s the catch. Instinctively, we think that so many people who are struggling with death gets shut down by the friends. If they try and talk about it, they say, no, let’s be positive. So I’d encourage you to not just ignore that, but to be prepared to open the conversation and have an honest conversation about death and about the future.