PP 606: Overcome the Limiting Beliefs of Age and Motherhood with Bettina Gordon
Quick Show Notes: Bettina Gordon
“Look at what you believe around age. Realize which of these beliefs no longer serve you because they’re just limiting you from doing what you desire to do… Go out and just do it.”- Bettina Gordon
Generally, it is when a woman enters motherhood that she really feels the joys of being a woman. Motherhood is a blissful, self-fulfilling role. However, as she enters her 40s, the societal norm starts to get backwards and discouraging. See why you should not let these beliefs hold you back and dictate who you should be and what you should do. This episode’s encouragement: Go ahead and do it. It’s your life and happiness.
01:24 Blooming “Late Bloomer”
08:38 Step Away From That Narrow Societal Norms
16:31 Never Too Old to be a Mom
22:41 Motherhood in the Early Years vs Later Years
24:55 The Right Motherhood Mindset
31:35 The Dimensions of Pregnancy
37:16 A Real Story
46:55 Just Do It!
About Bettina Gordon:
Being a third generation “late bloomer” mom, Bettina Gordon saw a lot of advantages about entering motherhood in her 40’s. Although she was discouraged by the narrow door of societal norms, Bettina knew that moms like her have the upper hand on their lives. So as an author and journalist, she helps women like her, realize that nobody can dictate what a person can and cannot do at a certain age. It is her belief that every person deserves to do what they desire to do.
“When it comes… with age and what we can achieve later on in life, you have to take a step away from that narrow window that society gives you.” – Bettina Gordon-Wayne
“When it comes to age, we all have given up on things that we wanted to do. Because we reached a certain age and thought we were too old for that.” – Bettina Gordon-Wayne
“In general, with age and life experience grows wisdom, grows our ability to understand ourselves better.” – Bettina Gordon-Wayne
“Fertility is an extension of your overall health; we cannot just look at fertility as being something independent from the rest of the body… So the older we are, you really have to be healthy.” – Bettina Gordon-Wayne
“Age is not just a number; it is a number that we all attached to certain stories, certain emotions, certain judgments, and consequences.” – Bettina Gordon-Wayne
“We need to be very aware of what do we believe? Yeah. And what beliefs do we take on from the outside.” – Bettina Gordon-Wayne
““Look at what you believe at around age. Realize which of these beliefs no longer serve you because they’re just limiting you from doing what you desire to do… Go out and just do it.”- Bettina Gordon-Wayne
“I would really say then please, look at what you believe at around age. Realize which of these beliefs no longer serve you because they’re just limiting you from doing what you desire to do and then say, I have the right, I deserve it. I have the right to do what is true and right for me, and then go out and just do it. Do it, do it, do it.”
Kim Sutton: Welcome back to another episode of positive productivity. This is your host Kim Sutton, and I am so happy to have you here today. And I’m thrilled to introduce our guest today, Bettina Gordon, who is an author, journalist, and age defier. Bettina, welcome, I’m so happy to have you here and I know we’re going to have a great time.
Bettina Gordon: Yes, we will. Thank you very much, Kim. I’m excited to be on your show.
Kim Sutton: I would love if you would share a little bit of your journey with the listeners so that they know how you got to where you are today.
Bettina Gordon: Yes, thank you. Well, it all started with me, and the fact that I’m somewhat often late bloomer, you know. I didn’t meet my husband until I was in my late 30’s, and we got married, and I didn’t have my child until I was 44, and I know, I mean you were much younger when you started with your family Kim. But for me, I’m actually third generation of women who have to children in their 40’s, my grandmother did, my mom was 42 when she had me. So for me it was totally normal, and I love, love, love still, I love it. I love being an old mom because there are so many benefits to it, and that, so specifically remember one day, I live in Washington DC and it was in the spring, and you know, the sea is famous for the cherry blossoms. And I remember sitting on my couch in my house looking outside the window, having a whole street full of cherry blossoms right in front of me, and my six week old baby in my hands, and I thought: “Wow, this is awesome. My life is so good because I had a full life before I even became a mother.” And so, I could really indulge in the feeling of, you know, nurturing my newborn, not feeling pressure to go back to work right away, not feeling pressured to handle him in a certain way, or any of that. And I certainly have no fear of missing out cause I’ve been there, done that. And I thought, because I’m a journalist, I would like to write a book about it because as you know, so many more women these days come to motherhood later, they are over 35, which is this dreaded advanced–
Kim Sutton: Advanced Maternal Age.
Bettina Gordon: Isn’t that crazy?
Kim Sutton: Wanted to slap my doctor when he said that to me.
Bettina Gordon: When you had to add the twins, how old were you? Can I ask you?
Kim Sutton: I was 35, or 36, yeah. So, I was Advanced Maternal Age, yeah.
Bettina Gordon: He already put the pressure on, knowing that something is going to go wrong, and that you need special attention, and that you’re just like, now you’re high risk.
Kim Sutton: Well, on top of it being twins, I mean.
Bettina Gordon: Okay, yup.
Kim Sutton: Yeah. And it’s like a constant thing in my head while we’re gonna, you know, them saying: “Oh, we’re going to be surprised if you make it to 30.” Oh my gosh, yes.
Bettina Gordon: Yeah.
Kim Sutton: Because it’s twins. “So we’re going to be monitoring you very closely.” Oh my gosh. They were born at 38 weeks.
Bettina Gordon: Oh, perfect.
Kim Sutton: You could just, you know, take your Advanced Maternal Age, and shove it because, you know, right up there, male doctor, because that’s how it feels with these two up there.
Bettina Gordon: Yes, yes. And this is exactly, look at that particular day back then when I thought: “Okay, I want to write a book about this beautiful experience of being an older mom.” I did what most almost every woman with access to a computer does at some point on her journey towards motherhood or pregnancy. I Googled, and I just Googled, put in search of pregnancy over 35, or children over 40, and then I was just astonished about one negative story after the other, that a woman reads nothing other on Dr. Google that: “Your fertility drops at 35, free falls at 40.” All the risks associated for mother, and child associated with maternal health. There were even stories that, why you shouldn’t become my mother over 40? Written by a woman over 40, you know, it was like, it was mind boggling. And I remember sitting on my couch, and noticing how I was influenced by what I was reading. All of a sudden I really felt anxiety bubbling up, and real fear coming over me thinking, oh my God, are they never been able to have a healthy child, and I already had my baby in my arm.
Kim Sutton: Right.
Bettina Gordon: So, I went from feeling strong, and good, and mentally healthy to a state of anxiety and fear in one Google page flat. And later I realized that, it became so personal to me. I don’t know what happened, but I so strongly remember that I got angry, I got angry, and I thought, this can’t be, that there are literally millions of women around the world who are going to make the best mothers, a child could ever wish for, but they are made to feel less than super fertile. They’re made to feel that there’s something wrong with them, and that it’s not gonna work out for them. Not because there’s something wrong with the body. No, because we have no idea. Only because of their age, only because of their number on the birth certificate. And I thought, this is not right, this is not right. We have to change the narrative. I have to do something, it became so personal to me, and I thought, you know, for all the women who are open to receiving a life in their body, they have to have other things to read than just a doom and gloom scenario. I was like: “I had it, I need to change this.”
Kim Sutton: Oh, my gosh. So, I don’t know if you realize, and I don’t know if listeners realize, but I had my first, just about a year after graduating college.
Bettina Gordon: Wow.
Kim Sutton: I was living outside of New York City. So what was I like? 22? 23? New York City, I mean that is very young for a professional in New York City to be having a baby. So whereas, you know, 44 maybe on the higher end.
Bettina Gordon: Yes.
Kim Sutton: I feel like I got those eyes on the low end because I was that young and a professional, so I was very much alone at that point, you know, because none of my friends that I worked with were having babies. They were all in the career path until was I, until that, oh yeah, there’s a double line. So, then we moved out to Ohio where 22 to 30, actually probably 22 to 26 was very normal.
Bettina Gordon: Yes.
Kim Sutton: And the only plan child of mine came during those years, yes.
Bettina Gordon: Only one plan?
Kim Sutton: Yes. He’s very cocky about these days. He’s 13, 14, I can’t remember. Listen, don’t judge, he’s 13, when you want to calculate how old you are, and how old your five kids are? Yeah, go at it. So he’s very proud of the fact that he was the only plan child. But then fast forward 10 years, and the little scheme who are all big surprises, all of a sudden I’m 10 years older than everybody else in the area having kids, it’s like, oh this is interesting.
Bettina Gordon: Aha, and were you alone again?
Kim Sutton: Oh, yeah.
Bettina Gordon: Okay. You felt alone because now it is very strange. But we have this narrow window that depending on where you live, you know, this is the time that you’re supposed to have your kids. I mean there is a reason why most couples do have children in Ohio at the age that you just mentioned, and in New York City it’s not. And it’s not just in New York City that it’s different. And it is not just explainable by, well in New York City you have to career women only, you know, and in Ohio you don’t cause that’s simply not true, most of us follow what most other people are doing. And when it comes to our conversation with age, and what we can achieve later on in life, you have to take a step away from that narrow window that society gives you, depending on where you live, how you grew up, even to the age of your mother, when she became my mom influences us. So the whole conversation about age that we were having today is really about stepping out of societal norms, and the expectations that are put upon us from the outside, but also very much from the inside. So age is a double, you know, so you have to have to courage to step out of these norms, and you know, stop checking off the boxes that, you know, you go to a great school, you go to so beautiful, like a well reputable college, then you go, you know, you said you work, check. Find a maid, check. Next thing you have to have a child, check. The house comes first, and then maybe the dog, but then the baby? You have to step out of it. And when it comes to the older ladies day, often have stepped out of it. I’ll have these norms, but not necessarily because they chose to.
Kim Sutton: Right.
Bettina Gordon: It just happened to them, you know? So, from my realization that this can be, that is women are just made to feel bad only because of their age. I decided to write a book, and I went ahead, and I spoke to dozens and dozens, but now it’s over a hundred women who hit the children later. So, my goal was to interview women who had the first one, then the second, third, how many ever children in the 40’s through natural pregnancies. That was a big parameter that I chose because it’s also the assumption when you are older, you can only do it when you use IVF, or other assisted reproductive technology, or other ways.
Kim Sutton: Yeah, which is absolutely not the case. When I didn’t exercise, and I got pregnant with twins. Was that, at Advanced Maternal Age. Can we just come up with a better term than that?
Bettina Gordon: I know. And the basis geriatric pregnancy, I mean what is geriatric? That is manual–
Kim Sutton: Oh, my gosh, that sounds even worse. Like, yeah, but I didn’t realize there’s a higher probability of having multiples over 35, because you start dropping more eggs. I was like, whoa.
Bettina Gordon: Yeah, and look Kim, because of the research that I did in the last few years, I discovered there are so many more women out there, because all the women that I interviewed for my book, which by the way, if the listeners are interested, is called The Joy of Later Motherhood, and you find in the American bookstore and online, The Joy of Later Motherhood. I found all these women very easily, very quickly, I just asked my friends to connect me. Do you know anybody? Do you know anybody? And I interviewed women in America and in Europe as well. One of them was even in Africa. Then two of them were in Australia because I wanted to get feedback from not just the US, and I’m telling you, there are so many more women having children later in life, natural pregnancy, no complications, whatsoever. But we usually don’t hear about them because we are not in there, so often quoted statistics.
Kim Sutton: No, yeah, I feel really bad saying this because your book is called The Joy of Later Motherhood. And my husband and I joke about the day that our twins leave the house, we’re changing the locks.
Bettina Gordon: (laughs) My dear, you also have five, you’ve been mothering for a decade and a half now. That’s also different.
Kim Sutton: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I love the little’s, don’t get me wrong, and I feel blessed on a daily basis that there are three of them because they keep each other occupied even though half the time they’re fighting.
Bettina Gordon: Yeah.
Kim Sutton: So, as soon as they were out of diapers, there’s a lot that they can do on their own, and that they do on their own. No, listeners, they’re not cooking their own meals, but they have crazy, awesome imaginations, and they just play with each other all day. But anyway, when can we go on a vacation? And it’s just interesting in this area, you know, the people our age have kids who are, well, like our older ones, they’re about to graduate high school, so it’s not, in some communities you can find the moms that you can do, you can swap daycare with, you know: “Hey, I’ll watch all the kids to this day. You Watch in the next day and then we can each have a full day of work.”
Bettina Gordon: Yes.
Kim Sutton: Nope. Not here, but it’s also a place where, there’s a stigma attached to work at home mom, have you noticed that?
Bettina Gordon: No, not in DC. I have not, but I have been out of any corporate job while I was never really into one. As a journalist, I always freelance. So the experience that you had when you had your first son, I never was that attached, or dead plugged into corporate America to begin with?
Kim Sutton: Well it feels like around here, work at home mom is often synonymous with stay at home mom.
Bettina Gordon: Yeah.
Kim Sutton: It’s very much not, I mean, I’m having to defy it with my kids on a daily basis. Especially that one who, you know was the one planned, because he thinks he has a full, like a fully loaded use any time mom chauffeur cart. No, dude, I may work at home, but these are my office hours, especially during the summer, holy goodness. But yeah, no, it’s so interesting. My stepmother was actually 19 when she had her first, and 44 when she had her third, yeah.
Bettina Gordon: Oh, my goodness.
Kim Sutton: Yeah. She and my dad had been trying for, I don’t know how long they had been married for, let me think. I was 10 when he was born, they got married when I was four. I think they had been trying for a good five years, and then I think they gave up, and then all of a sudden, oh, there’s Matt, yeah.
Bettina Gordon: Oh, yeah, yeah. The moment that you give up, or give in, not give up, give in, surrender.
Kim Sutton: Yes. Let the stress go, and the baby will come.
Bettina Gordon: Yeah. You know, it’s just so easily said because they had like, maybe five years when they really gave it their all, and only when they surrendered and said: “Okay, we’re fine.” Something really shifts, and I heard this often in my interviews as well. It’s just not something that is easily done. Do you know what I mean? That: “Oh, okay. I stopped trying now, and just relax.” There’s a lot, this is such a complex and wonderful topic to just, you know, when you really think about becoming a mom, and what goes into it, and then being one, it’s very complex and it’s beautiful.
Kim Sutton: So, what if we just took the age out of it altogether and address being a mom?
Bettina Gordon: Yes, yes. I think this is the whole look when it comes to age. This is where really Mike White is, because the women, so I truly, my book changes the narratives, and I have beautiful emails that I get on a daily basis in Amazon reviews, and how my book changed their mindset around it, and gave them hope, and inspiration on the way to motherhood. But it’s really the whole, exactly, if we would take the whole age thing out, it would be so much better for the women altogether because here’s the thing, when we read over and over and over, that after 35, high risk pregnancies, geriatric pregnancies, fertility, and free fall, and so on, the statistics, they may as incomplete as they often are one thing, but the thing is we now have come to expect that something is going to go wrong simply based on our age, and this is where things really go off track, and this is where I’m like, no, no, no, no. You cannot just expect that we do this all the time. Like when it comes to age, we all have given up on things that we wanted to do because we reached a certain age, and thought we were too old for that. You can’t do it anymore. Expectations is also very much influenced, of course, by your peers, by your parents, by your upbringing. There are these mindsets, and the guarantee your lovely listeners, your audience, we all gave up something that we thought you can’t have anymore. It also starts if you’re even teenagers, you know, we could make the sports team anymore, or the debate team, or you know, society, whatever it is, in our 20’s, many of us give up to half a certain kind of body, you know, or a certain kind of lifestyle, or we gave up the idea of traveling the world because now we are 26, and they’re supposed to have a family, and can’t do it anymore. Or we do have a family, and think now because I have a family, I can’t do it anymore. And then, you know, you go into your 30’s, into your 40’s, and I’m sure many of our listeners today have given up something because they think they’re too old. It could be that they gave up having a spouse, or having a child, you know, becoming an artist, or an organic farmer, you know, whatever you wanted to do, 10 or 20 years ago, you gave that up. Or you gave up your dream of becoming wealthy because now you’re in your 50’s, and you’re in your 60’s, and you always read you have to start early to become wealthy.
Kim Sutton: Oh, my gosh. I’m about to start laughing because, so I’m just picking on that kid. I’m just going to call him kid number two right now.
Bettina Gordon: Yup.
Kim Sutton: Bettina, I have stopped really referring to my kids by names as much. Actually, I don’t mean to bring us down, but I promise I’ll bring us right back up again. But I actually got death threats on my birthday this year out of a Facebook group that I was in, whoever it was, went through extensive research of my social media profiles and took the names of my children, and told me exactly what they were going to do to them. So, I tend to leave my kids names out of anything I do these days.
Bettina Gordon: I just wanted to ask you if that’s the reason?
Kim Sutton: Yeah, yeah. So, I’m being very careful. But while I was exercising the mom chauffeur card last night, I saw seven rabbits, and I was just laughing by the time I got home. I was like, what does this mean? So, I looked up the meaning of rabbits. Now we’ve all–
Bettina Gordon: Jealousy.
Kim Sutton: –yes. So I knew that, but there’s actually other meanings. Like, there’s a whole alternative, like it goes along with it, but about embracing your creativity and running with the ideas that you have right now. And so, I decided to, at first I was thinking, okay, we don’t need to be testing our doctors 100% tube tying record, maybe we should just restrain ourselves, abstain for the next, you know, five years to make sure that we’re not the one who breaks his record. But then I was like, okay, no, I have chronic idea disorder. We are working on many of my ideas right now. So I’m going to do a twist on this. What these seven rabbits mean is that, I am going to plant these ideas in fertile ground, and we are going to grow money trees out of them.
Bettina Gordon: Oh, I love that.
Kim Sutton: Yeah, yeah. But I was like, I had just told that son about the rabbits and showed him, because while I was waiting for him to come out of the car, I had already seen six. So I looked it up, and we pull into the driveway, and I’m getting out of the van, and I look into our neighbor’s driveway, and there’s a rabbit sitting there.
Bettina Gordon: (laughs).
Kim Sutton: And I just started laughing. He’s like, there is not, he’s like: “Mom, is there another rabbit?” I was like: “Yup.” And I point and he’s like: “Oh my goodness.” Yeah.
Bettina Gordon: Just came for the time being practiced safe sex. Many rabbits left and right (laughs).
Kim Sutton: Yeah, yeah. And listeners, you’ve never heard me talk about things like this before, but I was telling you, Bettina, before the show that last night I had chainsaw therapy. I was dealing with just something, and I don’t typically hit anything, or be on anything. I was just in one of those moods. So, we have a tree shrub ugly-looking plant thing in the backyard. So, I picked up the chainsaw and took it out back. But as soon as I opened the door, actually that was, rabbit number four was in the backyard, and then I pass two more going to pick him up from his friend’s house, and then the seventh was in the driveway.
Bettina Gordon: You know, kids in your 40’s pretty much rocks.
Kim Sutton: Yes. You know, the only difference for me that I’ve really seen is number one, you know, when I had the first one at 22, 23, my belly, yeah, my belly, my body bounced right back except for my boobs, which grew significantly. And I know that part of it is twins. Your body doesn’t bounce back as much, but I’m also tenured a lot older.
Bettina Gordon: Yes. And there was number four and five.
Kim Sutton: Yeah.
Bettina Gordon: I mean, it was flood pregnancies and the ones with twins. I mean don’t forget that.
Kim Sutton: Yeah. So whereas, in my twenties seeing the, you know, the superstars whose bodies got right back to normal and I was like, oh, I mine was that too, now I’m like, I hate you (laughs). Well not really, but I’m like, okay, this is just life, and I think that’s like the biggest difference. It doesn’t need to be, but whereas you know, before five kids, they may have been working extra hard to get my belly back to where it was. It’s not important to me anymore, I don’t care. You know, there may be some extra, I mean there’s already a bit of extra in my boobs. Why not just add some to the [inaudible].
Bettina Gordon: Exactly, exactly.
Kim Sutton: And then the other difference is that in retrospect, in my 20’s, I really had no idea who I was, and I thought I did, but I really didn’t. I mean, today I think I know who I am. Let’s check back in 10 years, and see if I really know who I am. And even when the twins were born, I still didn’t know who I was. But again, you know, in 10 years the person I am today could just be another one of those. “You didn’t know what you were talking about.” But that’s just part of the journey. The only other difference is, just the cost of daycare. But you’re going to get that wherever you are.
Bettina Gordon: Yes.
Kim Sutton: If anybody had told me though that it was going to be 400 a week to have child care outside of New York City, I would’ve been extra sure. Sorry, child number one, to make sure I was taking my pill every day.
Bettina Gordon: Yeah. It’s like it’s almost 2,000 a month in DC, it is just not, there’s not even funny, it’s not nothing, I dunno.
Kim Sutton: Yeah, no.
Bettina Gordon: No, I dunno. But you make a very good point that with age, not of course not with everybody but in general, with age and life experience comes, or grows wisdom, grows all ability to understand ourselves better. And there are now studies that really look at the different behaviors, moms that are older display in comparison to the younger ones, simply because when you were older, as I said, you know yourself better. Things don’t readily you as quickly anymore because you’ve seen it done that, you know. And so, just parenting styles are different, and they’re beautiful, many, many benefits to actually have a child later on. And I wanted to end, you know, it’s really so important to look when you want to get pregnant later that you are super, super healthy. Because what I learned in all my research is that fertility, fertility, like if you’re challenged with fertility, with infertility then does is, fertility is an extension of your overall health. We cannot just look at fertility as being something independent from the rest of the body. There’s just something going on, that in the overall health that manifests with infertility. So the older we are, Julie has to be healthy. And when I’m saying healthy, I really mean that, not just physically but also mentally and emotionally. And there is also spiritual aspects of pregnancy that I’ve found to be true with very many of the that are interviewed. And so, it starts, with my opinion really with the mindset. This is where we need the most help, and this is where it all starts. Because it sounds, you know, some people, or many people when I say: “You know, I don’t believe in that, that you are deteriorating with age.” You know, other people say to me: “Yeah, yeah, age is just a number.” That is actually not true. Age is not just a number, it is a number that we all attached to certain stories, certain emotions, certain judgements and consequences. We all do it. We all have it. For some of us, we feel that we are getting old when we are 32, and for others it’s a bit later. It all depends by the, everybody, we have to use different stories, and so we need to be very aware of what do we believe, and what beliefs do we take on from the outside. Because ageism in America and worldwide, you know in the Western world, you know other places you were happy to survive. So this is really a first world problem. It isn’t, but it is real, and it gets to us, and this is what I shared when we, when we spoke, when we met the first time. Ageism then becomes, even though it is fed from the outside, but it becomes a true inside game. And does inside game is what do we need to master when it comes to ageism, and we need to be aware of how much we ageism all over ourselves. It’s the mindset that is the most important thing that we need to look at. And so for example, for all the listeners that are thinking during the 30’s, or 40’s, or even late 20’s they’re thinking about becoming moms. Is it okay to, did I mention a gift here for them?
Kim Sutton: Oh yeah, absolutely.
Bettina Gordon: Thank you. Yeah, so for them, I’ve prepared, there are two really important chapters in my book, the joy of later motherhood that only deal with the mindset and around age. And I prepared them, so if you go to bettinagordon.com/gift, Bettina is spelled B-E-T-T-I-N-A, last name, Gordon, G-O-R-D-O-N.C-O-M/G-I-F-T. Please get it there, These are the two most important chapters from my book that are dealing with mindset because I find it, everything starts with two mindsets.
Kim Sutton: I love that you’re talking about mental health as well.
Bettina Gordon: Yes.
Kim Sutton: Because for child number three, we actually had four miscarriages in the year before. Now, for anybody who’s gone through infertility, I mean we weren’t consulting with a fertility doctor or anything. I mean, and I know we were rushing, you know, we didn’t give any time to the body to have a break in between so, you know, in retrospect we could have done it a little bit differently, but I was also working a job that was stressful just because I was stuck in a position where I was underpaid and I didn’t like what I was doing, but there was a lot of stress there, and my husband kept on losing his job, and I know listeners, it probably wasn’t the best time for us to have a baby anyway, but when is the right time? I mean, I don’t think there is, but I would have to say that the stress of life at that time definitely impacted our ability to maintain a pregnancy.
Bettina Gordon: Yes, yes. I am so glad you’re making this point Kim, because this is the big mistake that we are making, thinking that pregnancy is only a physical affair. It’s not, distress is off job, distress is off, whatever is going on in your life, is a huge, huge influence. It’s not just a physical, it’s mental, it’s everything.
Kim Sutton: Yes.
Bettina Gordon: And you don’t look at it, so I’m so glad, thank you very much. So where you like, and here’s the thing, if you would have gone to an infertility specialist, he would have just looked at equality, egg count, sperm mobility, and so on. But he would not have asked you, or she, how are you doing in your life? Where are stressors? How are you? Are you sleeping well? What’s going on with your body in general? Are you feeling strong? Are you healthy? Are depleted in certain areas? They wouldn’t have asked you that.
Kim Sutton: Great.
Bettina Gordon: And this is where so many of us, we just need to be aware, and have much more complex topic. And you’re influenced on so many levels. So how did you then, did you not see anybody? After four miscarriages.
Kim Sutton: We had, and we found out that I had an issue absorbing folic acid. So, I ended up taking folic acid supplements and baby aspirin. But after the fourth one, we basically just said, you know, I mean, I was just emotionally exhausted because that took a lot out of me and going through that.
Bettina Gordon: Yes.
Kim Sutton: So, I said: “You know, you already have two kids. I already have two kids, we’re good. You know, we don’t need more.” And then, I started my business, and gave my notice to my job, and the week that I gave my notice at my job, we found out about her. But I think that a lot of that came out of the fact that I was, I was excited again. Like, I don’t know if adrenaline helps with pregnancy, but I was so excited about the fact that I was starting this business, and my husband was pursuing his dream, and there was just something exciting outside of our relationship again, you know?
Bettina Gordon: Yes, yes, yes.
Kim Sutton: And all of a sudden, bang. And that little booger stayed in there for an extra 10, or 8 to 10 days.
Bettina Gordon: Yes. And no, absolutely, it changes when you do something and you’re excited about it. You lowering distress level, and the oxytocin do feel good hormones. It really shifts biochemically the hormones in your body, and that sets you up for pregnancies. Like, when I work with my clients, I always tell them to please not to focus so much on the task at hand, which is the baby. But to do things that they love and bring them joy because it has a physical reaction in their body when they do something that they really like. And I’m pretty sure, I mean you know, we will never know, but the fact that you already knew what you were going to do, and you’ll put on notice that, you know, there were weeks and weeks of excitement already building up to that. That does shift has contributed largely to your pregnancy.
Kim Sutton: Ehmm. I don’t mean to get x-rated for a moment, but like, in my research, I mean, cause I’ve had friends who have gone through infertility and I looked it up, and pardon me listeners, you know, I don’t normally go here, but one of my questions has been to them, well, you know, yes, sex is how this baby is made, but is there an orgasm? Because I even read, you know that helps–
Bettina Gordon: Yes.
Kim Sutton: When you’re so far, when you’re just doing the deed to make the baby. Where’s the fun in that? Right?
Bettina Gordon: Yes, yes, yes, yeah, yeah. Orgasm makes a difference because again, the feel good hormones that are released, and I’m sure it’s way more complex than I’m explaining here, but yes,it was my midwife, and also when you’re ready to give birth, my midwife always says: “Have lots of sex and good ones, so that you climax. What got the baby into the body, gets the baby out of their body (laughs).”
Kim Sutton: With child number three, we spent a whole night — no, not having sex people — at a local park where they had a whole series of speed bumps down the multiple driveways to keep people slowing down, and we just spent the whole night driving up and down. I was like, I need this one out (laughs), and no, we tried everything. Same with child number one, cause he was late. The day before he was born, I had a doctor’s appointment and outside of New York City, I mean, I was reliant on public transportation. I purposely sat in the last row of the bus because, I mean, I almost flew off my seat for a bump.
Bettina Gordon: Oh, because it’s so bumpy?
Kim Sutton: Aha.
Bettina Gordon: Okay (laughs).
Kim Sutton: Yeah, if you want to know how to do it in–
Bettina Gordon: In our bodies, like nothing in comparison to what we do to get it out again.
Kim Sutton: I mean listeners, nobody is going to write a book on parenting by Kim, unless you know, unless you want to hate me, because I do it what’s right for me. And I would probably, I would probably irritate a lot of people, but maybe this is just the true life that a lot of people don’t share. So, I have to remind you that I love how you wrote your book because there is so much more than what we read on social media.
Bettina Gordon: Oh yeah, oh yeah. And this is, you know, all the women, so in the joy of later motherhood, I asked the women, I said: “I don’t need to use your real name. I don’t care about that. I want do real story.” And they dive so deep with me to share it. You know, many miscarriages unfortunately are very, very common. Like every, I think one out of four, and some miscarriages if not more, you know, miscarriage that we have before we even know that we are pregnant? So it’s very, very common, and all these women, they shared the heartaches, they shared the stories, you know, how long it took them, and they went really, really deep. One of them, she, I just loved this woman, Jenny in London, she had like a psychotic episode because she thought, only because she turned 42 this is it, she can’t have it anymore, and she could work to herself, so up in her mindset, that her psychologist said: “Jenny, you are sick. You have to go to an inpatient facility for a few weeks.”
Kim Sutton: Ehmm.
Bettina Gordon: And she had to do that. But just very briefly Kim, because I think it is such a beautiful story, and you know, this is a story you will not read anywhere else. And Jenny said: ” You know, I realized I am not healthy, but I had a strong feeling that there’s a child close by.” And she said: “The night before I had to go to the facility, I was at home in my house in London, and I gave birth to my fantasy child.” She really instinctively, I think it was an instinct, she squatted down, she birthed her girl, her daughter, you know, her baby. She wrapped her up in a blanket, wind outside in her yard, in her garden, then she threw the baby in the air and said: “God, if you can bring her back to me.”–
Kim Sutton: Wow.
Bettina Gordon: –“I’m ready, exactly.” And I said to her: “Jenny,” i’m getting goosebumps still, and I said to her: “Jenny, I have to ask you, does this either do most beautiful primal wisdom that I ever heard from my mom, or my mom to be, or did you have a psychotic episode?”
Kim Sutton: I was wondering the same thing.
Bettina Gordon: Yes, and she says: “No, no. I was very clear. It just was something that I could do.” This ties into, at the beginning we talked about surrender. This was just something that I could do that was much more empowering than laying in the fetal position. Indicate on the kitchen table in my house, she surrendered, she gave that baby over to God and said: “If you can bring her back to me.” Now that did not, that didn’t mean she didn’t have to go to the facility. She did, she was there for him for a few weeks, she goes on an island off of the coast of England, and there was a doctor. And a doctor that she really felt trust with, and that doctor one day came up because Jenny did some tests about fertility that you didn’t get the results before she went in, but then the results came while she was there and the doctor said: “Jenny, I have to results. Do you want them?”She says: “Yes.” He said: “You are a very healthy 42 year old woman. There’s nothing wrong with you, and I’d believe you all going to be a mother.” So, it was in truth, just in her mind, she had gotten herself so much into this space of, oh my God, it’s never going to happen, that she, you know, influenced the whole physical being. And because of the doctor that she trusted, she says: “You know, I really trusted him. So I thought like, oh, I can be okay and does this also big pod point of surrender.” It’s an extreme story, but I think it’s so beautiful. It just shows that, you know, what is really going on with us women when we speak about things like does in truth and she says: “You know, I came out of the facility knowing that whatever will happen, a child or not, I will be okay.” And she went on, I think it was a September? Seriously, by December. She needs her, now husband, she actually meet two guys, one in America and one in London. She made the smart choice to date the one in London and not do one in America. He brought it up, he said: “Jenny, we’re both in our 40’s, how long should we wait to try to have a baby?” So I think that started trying often like three, or four, or five months, and she was pregnant within the first year of them being together, and they now have two children.
Kim Sutton: Oh, my gosh. So she was stressing about getting pregnant, but she wasn’t even with anybody.
Bettina Gordon: Yeah, exactly, exactly. That add to her stress (laughs), that add to her dress. And the first one, the first child she had, it was really a girl. So, she felt, yes, God brought her, brought her back to her. Yeah, so she had one at 43, and one at 45, and that is nice. I mean, you know, this is an extreme example, but when we speak in truth and honesty about what’s going on about our stories, you say the stories that you hear–
Kim Sutton: Wow.
Bettina Gordon: –stories that happened to book, yeah, it’s just beautiful. And I think these are also the conversations we should have way more often because we all know by now the Instagram pictures, how beautiful they are, this is not real life.
Kim Sutton: Oh yes. I’ve been eyeing the big massive pile of laundry on my couch for the past three days rather than do anything about it. I’d been eyeing it, wondering if I should take a picture of it for Instagram just to show people, this is life (laughs).
Bettina Gordon: Yes.
Kim Sutton: Yeah, I tackled the laundry over the past week. I don’t even want to admit, but listeners, I think there were something like 30 loads of laundry that had to get done.
Bettina Gordon: Yeah, and that’s the truth.
Kim Sutton: Yeah, Bettina, this has been amazing. Where can listeners find you online, connect, and get to know more. And if you wouldn’t mind, also sharing the link for your book and the freebie, again, that would be so awesome.
Bettina Gordon: Yes, of course, thank you. Yeah, so my website is bettinagordon.com, B-E-T-T-I-N-A-G-O-R-D-O-N.C-O-M. And I used to focus up until now, primarily on, you know, women wanting to get pregnant later on in life, But I’m now expanding, I really want to create. So, my new focus is, it’s never too late, that I’m helping women overcome the limiting beliefs around age. And there are so many things we could still talk about, I know time flew that I’m focusing on now because it’s not just motherhood, it’s career. You know, when we think we’re getting 50, towards 50, or 60, what are the things that we think we can’t do anymore, but we can, you know, so with interviews women who actually did outstanding things that other women said: “Oh, I can’t do this anymore. I’m too old.” So that’s my new focus. You can look for me at Facebook, I think is just facebook/bettinagordon, and on Instagram it’s bettina.gordon, and for the freebie, especially if you’re interested in having children, then it’s bettinagordon.com/gift.
Kim Sutton: So funny, I was over here, I forgot that I admitted immediately, and I was about to say, I’m so happy that you’re talking about all the other things besides motherhood because, I don’t think I would have been equipped to handle what’s going on in my business 20 years ago.
Bettina Gordon: Yes.
Kim Sutton: And then in the background, actually one of my four year old son twin decided to start opera singing, and I didn’t even realize it was made it up, and I was like: “Huh, thankfully.” (laughs) That was going to amuse us, whatever path he takes, sorry, this is just one more deviation. Sorry, but no, sorry. That’s been another shift of mine since the first one was born to now, these are the last three being born. When I was a 22 year old mom, I had dreams of my son following the same path as I had taken. You know, you have good grades, go to college, get a job, be successful, and make lots of money, advocate. But now, it’s like, I don’t really care if you go to college, do what makes you happy.
Bettina Gordon: Yes, ehmm.
Kim Sutton: Yeah. And I think that’s also been a huge shift in the last 16 years. 16 years ago, college was really a prerequisite to get any type of job. Now it’s just no, no, yeah.
Bettina Gordon: Yeah. So we change, we evolve as human beings, and of course naturally it has an influence on how we parent. I mean, it’s logical how we play everything, how we start businesses. Did you know that the fastest growing segment of new entrepreneurs are the 50 plus?
Kim Sutton: I did not know that, but I love it.
Bettina Gordon: Yes. So I’m going into that direction just as much like, I’m expanding now from motherhood to a much, much bigger viewpoint.
Kim Sutton: Absolutely, love it. Bettina, do you have a parting piece of advice, or a golden nugget that you can offer to listeners?
Bettina Gordon: I would really say then please, look at what you believe at around age. Realize which of these beliefs no longer serve you because they’re just limiting you from doing what you desire to do and then say, I have the right, I deserve it. I have the right to do what is true and right for me, and then go out and just do it. Do it, do it, do it.