PP 678: How to Sleep Better with Martha Lewis

“We are all meant to sleep well. It’s just a matter of figuring it out and turning that around.” – Martha Lewis

Are you sleeping as much as you should?? For many, getting a good night’s sleep is a constant struggle. There are some who stay up late to finish work while others face a constant battle with their busy minds. 

In this episode, we’re going to address this issue with Martha Lewis, a Certified Sleep Like a Boss Consultant. Martha expounds on the environmental and biological factors that adversely affect sleep patterns, and how to naturally adjust your circadian rhythm so that you are not only getting enough sleep but a sweet sleep at that. She also lists the reasons we should stop neglecting our sleep right now and live a healthy life. Tune in and find out how to win at your nightly sleeping battles and find your bedtime “sweet spot” at last!


03:01 Struggles With Sleep
06:28 Establish A Healthy Sleep Pattern
11:43 Sleep & Health Issues
17:14 Sleep Deprivation and Its Effect on Productivity
21:51 Finding Our Sweet Spot 
26:42 Cortisol Can Affect Sleep
31:48 Strategies To Sleeping Better

Having a hard time trying to sleep? Listen in as @thekimsutton and Martha Lewis share effective techniques for a better sleep and a sweeter night! #positiveproductivity#podcast#healthysleep#hormones#sweetspotClick To Tweet

Inspirational Quotes:

“What you do during the day is definitely going to impact how you sleep at night and how busy your mind is at night.” – Martha Lewis 

“Wake up naturally and take some time to yourself to start the day instead of jumping into it.” – Martha Lewis 

“Sleep is very important, so things can wait.” – Kim Sutton

“We are all meant to sleep well. It’s just a matter of figuring it out and turning that around.” – Martha Lewis 

“Often building those boundaries isn’t as offensive to everybody else’s. We’re overly concerned that they won’t like us when in fact, they have more respect for us because we’ve asserted what we need.”  – Kim Sutton

“Prioritize sleep and get help if you are having trouble sleeping.” – Martha Lewis

About Martha Lewis:

Martha Lewis first started learning about sleep when she decided to become a sleep consultant for babies and children. Her son Parker was a horrible sleeper when he was a baby and decided to  hire a sleep consultant, he started sleeping better, and it changed her life! Martha took the, Solve Your Sleep certification course from Dana Obleman so she could learn how to fix her sleep. After becoming Solve Your Sleep certified, she became a certified Sleep Like A Boss consultant with Christine Hansen and learned about lab testing for basic nutrients, gut health, hormones and thyroid and how to address any issues to help her clients sleep.



Kim Sutton: Welcome back to another episode of Positive Productivity, this is your host, Kim Sutton. Today we’re going to have a super important conversation. If you’ve been listening since the very beginning, you may have listened to episode number 5, which was why I don’t want you to listen to me and why you need to go to sleep. Something along those lines, we are now in episode 670 something. So thinking back to the exact title of episode number 5 is beyond what I can do this very second. But the whole essence of that show was that sleep is so important, and that is exactly what our guests today, Martha Lewis discusses in her business, Complete Sleep Solution. Martha, I am so happy to have you here.

Martha Lewis: Thanks so much for having me. I love it when people are passionate about sleep, like I am.

Kim Sutton: I don’t know if you know but I’ve gone through two very serious bouts of sleep deprivation in my life, both in the last 10 years, and they were both somewhat tied to me being an entrepreneur. The first one was in 2008 when I was working a full time job outside of my home, then I was trying very unsuccessfully to build a business at night. So I would put the kids to bed and work in my business from about 8:00 o’clock at night to 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning. And then I would turn around and get up at 4:00 o’clock or 5:00, get ready for work and drive the hour each way. I ended up being admitted to the mental hospital for both, I would have to say sleep deprivation, but also for neglecting self care in a variety of other ways. And then in 2016, I went through another serious bout where I was not admitted to the mental hospital, but I know that it was very much tied to sleep deprivation because, again, I was sleeping two to three hours a night for 18 months. I see this so much with high achievers, which I know is very much what you see, but how did you get into this?

Martha Lewis: Well, I got into this because of my own sleep struggles. I initially became a sleep consultant for babies after my son wasn’t a good sleeper, and inspired me enough by working with someone to become a sleep consultant myself. And then the ironic thing was, even after he was sleeping through the night, I still wasn’t sleeping. And so I would go to bed and take forever to fall asleep. And then I would wake up at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning and not be able to go back to sleep until it was 6:00 in the morning and time to get up for the day. By this point, I still had a full time job. I had started my business as a baby sleep consultant. I had a young baby, and I wasn’t sleeping, and I was miserable.

Kim Sutton: That sounds like a big train wreck.

Martha Lewis: Yeah, exactly. So luckily, I did my baby sleep certification through Dana Obleman who also offered an Adult Sleep Certification. So about a year ago in January 2019 was when I decided to take that certification. I was pretty skeptical that it would help because I already knew a lot about sleep, but it totally did. I needed to make multiple changes to get back to sleeping, how I used to, which is great, 99% of the time.

Kim Sutton: I love hearing the transformation. I also love hearing that there is a program for adults. Because before you, I had no idea. I mean, I have five kids, so I’ve heard plenty about sleep training, sleep coaching, whatever they put after sleep for babies, and I was always very skeptical about that, but I didn’t know that it was even out there for adults.

Martha Lewis: Yeah. Well, I think it’s become such a problem now with, literally, a third of Americans not getting enough sleep every night, and some of that is not prioritizing sleep like you talked about burning the candle at both ends and just not getting sleep. And then for a lot of people, they actually struggle to sleep. They want to sleep, but they can’t, more like my story. So it’s such a problem now that, luckily, I think more and more people are coming out who can help with that.

Kim Sutton: Well, I do want to say that, even when I was not pushing myself to stay awake, that I would go to bed and I would toss and turn all night due to the stress of my to do list, and concerning myself with what I had to do the next day that I forget to do something today. What if this happened? What if this happens? So I would toss and turn all night and it wouldn’t only make my sleep miserable or nonexistent, but it was affecting my husband’s sleep as well.

Martha Lewis: Right, I’m sure.

Kim Sutton: He’s like, do you have ants in your pants or something? Seriously, just stay still. I have to give him props, he never actually said that. But if I could read his brain, that would be exactly what he was saying. But I heard more than a few sighs and just like pulling the blankets, rolling over, trying to get back to sleep himself. And I would hear him snoring and I would be like, Oh, I wish I could do that.

Martha Lewis: Yeah. I’ve been there.

Kim Sutton: So what were some of the tips that you learned for yourself that helped you establish a healthy sleep pattern again?

Martha Lewis: Well, for me it was changing my schedule a little bit. We all have a genetically based chronotype or circadian rhythm. And I was actually trying to go to bed too early because I was so exhausted, so it helped for me to actually move my schedule later and go to bed a little bit later. I also needed to change what I was eating, and the timing of when I was eating things, especially chocolate, I found would wake me up at 3:00 or 4:00 o’clock hour. I also had to start exercising everyday, which before having a baby, I was very active. Then after having him, I wasn’t able to be as active as a lot of days, if I didn’t exercise, I would just write it off and not do anything. But I needed to at least go for a walk everyday, and I think that had a lot to do with it too, we need to move everyday. So those were just some of the changes I made at that time that helped me a lot.

Kim Sutton: This is the first year, I mean, at the time of this recording were three and a half months into the year. You do the math, I don’t, it’s irrelevant. But I have not had a soda yet this year, and I have never made it this far without having a soda. Mountain Dew goes through my house like it’s going out of stock. Like, you better drink it now before it’s no longer available. I just refuse to touch it and I’ve noticed, it’s like a snap. I mean, my head touches my pillow and I am out. I’ve also cut back significantly on the coffee. I need to give a disclaimer to our listener, I didn’t do it all at one time. I have learned my lesson not to cut out all caffeine at one time, because when I’ve done that in the past, I’ve had raging headaches for like three days. I felt like I had the flu so I don’t recommend that. Martha, what’s your thought on cold turkey caffeine?

Martha Lewis: Well, it’s different for everyone, but I’ve had the same experiences like you where I recently gave up caffeine completely and switched to decaf first, so that was a big transition. And then even just going off decaf, I had the same thing as you where, I felt like I had the flu, and it kind of was on and off for a couple of weeks before I finally detox completely. Whereas, my husband just decided to give up caffeine for January and experienced no adverse side at all, by going cold Turkey, so it’s different for everyone. Women do tend to be more sensitive to that, for sure.

Kim Sutton: I also gave up alcohol at the end of last year. So I never had hangovers, which I know many people were jealous of. I’m not proud of this, but I am proud of it. I could get ridiculously drunk, again, I’m not proud of that, but I am. I know that sounds totally ridiculous, but I wouldn’t have a hangover the next day. So I’m just jealous of people who can go off caffeine. But I hope to never have to go off caffeine again, this has been quite the journey. I need to say though, I am still on one cup of coffee a day, but that’s down from three or four cups of coffee, and three or four mountain dew’s to one cup of coffee and no decaf in there, whatsoever.

Martha Lewis: That’s awesome. That’s a huge difference.

Kim Sutton: Yeah. Huge ginormous difference. But what I’ve noticed is I don’t need it to stay awake anymore. And I’ve also changed, I can’t say I’ve changed my whole eating habits, full disclosure. We had McDonald’s earlier this week, I did not eat the French fries but I did enjoy my big mac. I know it’s totally unhealthy, but in my family, that was maybe the second time we’ve had McDonald’s this year. In the past, we ate it a lot more. I mean, it was a lazy meal. Just by eating healthier and not eating all the drudgery food. There’s gotta be a better word for it than that. I don’t need the caffeine to stay awake.

Martha Lewis: Yeah, that’s awesome. I know I feel so much better without it, for sure.

Kim Sutton: I had to train my husband though, I just need to put that out there. I don’t cook, I burn. So my husband does all the meal preparation, and when it came to lunchtime, he was giving me a lot of heavy carbs. I got so tired of sandwiches, like lunch meat sandwiches, I just said: “I’d like a break. Can I have salads?” But I put off asking him for such a long time, because I didn’t want to hurt his feelings. Because I’m so appreciative that he makes me lunch, but I didn’t want to hurt his feelings. He’s like: “Well, how long have you felt this way?” I was like: “A little while, but I didn’t want to hurt your feelings.” He’s like: “Yeah, but I’d rather have you enjoy what you eat.” And I feel like so many times we, even when it comes to being in bed and having outside circumstances, loud noises from family affect us, we feel bad to ask for things that could support us and deal with it when it is really detrimental to us in our mental health, our physical health in the process.

Martha Lewis: Yeah, definitely.

Kim Sutton: So how are you working with clients today?

Martha Lewis: Well, one thing I haven’t mentioned is that, most recently this past fall, I was able to a certification through Christine Hansen of Sleep Like a Boss, and that involves testing for underlying health issues that affect sleep. Because even after my first certification, I always had this thought in my head, what if someone really has something serious going on? What I’ve learned so far isn’t going to be able to help them. So I’m really excited to offer a different lab test that looks at gut health, hormones, and thyroid, and all of those things that we don’t think about that affects sleep, but they totally do.

Kim Sutton: Can I pause you for a second?

Martha Lewis: Yeah.

Kim Sutton: So the part of my self care that I was really neglecting before I went into the mental health hospital was my thyroid. I’ve been hypo-active since birth and I hadn’t been taking my medication. I don’t even want to say how long it had been because I don’t know, but I didn’t realize the importance of taking my medication. So when they admitted me, listeners, your thyroid has to do with your metabolism. I’m not a doctor, I never want to be a doctor. So if you’re really curious about what a thyroid does and you don’t know, I would say go to Google. But what I know is it affects metabolism. I would get really brittle nails, my skin would become really pasty, my hair would fall out, I would just be chronically tired, I would gain weight even though I wasn’t hungry and therefore wasn’t eating, but I hadn’t taken my medication. And your TSH or your Thyroid Stimulating Hormone, I think it should have a level between 0.1 and 0.2. Again, don’t quote me on this, I’m not the doctor, and mine was 158.

Martha Lewis: Wow.

Kim Sutton: So when I got in there, and I’m just sharing this all because it’s so important to be in tune with our own health and our own self care, they didn’t look, yes, they acknowledged my thyroid and made sure I was back on my medication, but they treated me for the depression rather than the sleeper, the thyroid. So they didn’t ask me how much I had been sleeping, they just put me on three antidepressants.

Martha Lewis: Wow.

Kim Sutton: Can you address the thyroid more, I mean, to the best of your ability, I don’t expect you to be a PhD either, but I’m so curious because this is the first time I’ve heard about this.

Martha Lewis: Yes. Well being either hypothyroid or hyperthyroid definitely is going to affect your sleep. Like 80% of the clients I work with also have autoimmune thyroid Hashimoto’s. So that’s where the thyroid gland or your body is attacking itself by attacking the thyroid gland. That’s obviously going to affect you in all the ways you’re talking about too, your symptoms, but also in your ability to sleep. Many basic lab tests only look at TSH, for example, or only look at T4, and T4 has to be converted to T3 for the body to use it. So you pretty much need to look at the whole picture of the thyroid, and it’s very complex for sure. I still have a lot to learn, so if I find someone who does show that they have thyroid antibodies, for example, then I’m telling them to go talk to their doctor or to someone else. But that can be a main reason why someone isn’t sleeping.

Kim Sutton: That’s huge for me.

Martha Lewis: Yeah.

Kim Sutton: And again, they never even addressed my sleep when I was in a mental hospital.

Martha Lewis: Yeah.

Kim Sutton: I think that’s such a disservice.

Martha Lewis: Yeah. That could have been the cause of your depression, as well as the thyroid, all of these things are connected. Yeah, just putting on antidepressants is not getting to the root cause of what’s causing that.

Kim Sutton: So when I went into my anxiety and depression in 2016, I had a very spiritual experience. Let’s just say that after that experience, I started sleeping again. So I learned how to walk away from my computer at the end of the day. Can I say that I’ve done that every single night since? Heck, no. When I’m deep into a project or doing a launch with my clients, I work way too much and I will fully admit that, but I know that sleep is very important, so things can wait. I want all listeners to remember that Rome wasn’t built in a day, you don’t need to get your empire built tonight. You will have a much clearer mind if you sleep tonight, and you’ll be able to work with much more effectiveness and much more productivity tomorrow, if you just get some sleep. So if you’re exhausted right now, if your eyes can barely stay open to be listening to us, please just push pause and come back. Yeah, we’ll still be here waiting for you. But giving myself that grace and that freedom to sleep has been life changing. I’m not going to say that I’ve not had any issues with anxiety or depression since then, we’ve had life circumstances that really did affect that, but nothing to the extent of what I went through that did not even measurably close.

Martha Lewis: Yeah, that’s great news. I mean, if you want to get into productivity, it’s cool that more and more studies are being done about sleep deprivation and how it affects us in every way, but there are studies being done on how it affects productivity.

Kim Sutton: I’d love to discuss that some more. What do you mind diving in?

Martha Lewis: Yeah, so like one recent study compared people getting eight hours of sleep versus less than seven found that they are, the sleep deprived group was three times more likely to experience lapses in concentration, and twice as likely to make keeping errors. So that means, it’s harder to stay focused and efficient, and if you do get distracted to come back to what you were doing. So I would actually argue that staying up an hour later and missing an hour asleep to get more done, isn’t going to serve you because the next day, you’re going to be less productive, it just cancels it out. I would suggest getting sleep instead and knowing that you will be able to be more productive the next day.

Kim Sutton: I was finding that I was having to redo the work that I had been trying to do the night before.

Martha Lewis: Right.

Kim Sutton: Because I was making so many mistakes. That just wasn’t serving me because I’m not going to charge my clients twice because I did it wrong. So not only did I not get the sleep I needed, but I’m not getting paid for the extra work I’m doing, which was my own fault anyway.

Martha Lewis: Right. And then you’re doing it twice.

Kim Sutton: So I have found, I know there’s a small portion of the population that supposedly doesn’t need more than an hour to sleep at night. I’m not honestly sure that I believe that, but let’s just go with it. I have found that when I fall asleep on my own and I don’t have an alarm set, normally, I wake up at about six hours later, completely wide awake and unable to get back to sleep, I’m ready for the day and I go to it. When I sleep eight hours a day, this is just me personally, I wake up with a headache. And when I sleep longer than that, Oh, it’s like another bout of the flu. Like I would rather just stay in bed and nurse my head when I’ve overslept. What have you seen with your clients as far as, too little, too much, just right.

Martha Lewis: Well, again, everyone is different. But the recommended amount of sleep per night is seven times hours. So that’s a two hour variable because we’re all different. I would say, if you’re feeling really good after six hours of sleep, then that’s great. Usually the recommendation is, again, that’s seven hours because they found that getting less than that does put you more at risk for all kinds of different diseases like heart disease, diabetes and depression, and Alzheimer’s. But there is something called the short sleeper gene that’s recently been found, that there are some people who can get four, or five, six hours of sleep a night and not suffer these ill health effects. But you know, the percentage of the population that is like that is less than 1%. So it’s very small. But yeah, I have clients who say, Oh, I want to sleep eight hours a night. And once we get them sleeping better, they’re fine at seven or seven and a half. And so what’s most important is how you feel the next day.

Kim Sutton: Okay. So there’s no magical test, and I don’t mean this to be sassy, please know that. I was just wondering if there’s like a tool that helps us find our sweet spot, or is it just trial and error seeing where we feel good, where we don’t, reflecting on what’s going on in our life. Because all of that plays into itself.

Martha Lewis: Yeah. I mean, the ideal is to go to bed at the same time everyday and wake up naturally without an alarm clock. And if you do that everyday, then you’re sleeping the right amount you need.

Kim Sutton: Okay.

Martha Lewis: If you have missed out on sleep for a long time and you want to find out your ideal, like it’s great to do that during vacation, for example, when you can, for a week, not wake up to an alarm clock. So the first few nights, you’re probably going to sleep longer because you’re catching up on sleep. And then toward the end of the week is when you’ll probably find your sweet spot. Again, the ideal is not waking up to an alarm clock. Because if you’re in the middle of a sleep cycle and you’re interrupted in that, that’s when you get that grogginess hangover kind of feeling.

Kim Sutton: Yeah.

Martha Lewis: Yeah, because you didn’t get to finish that sleep cycle.

Kim Sutton: This past weekend, I went to a conference and I drove from Ohio to Orlando, and it was good in bed, let me just put it that way. It was awesome because it was 16 hours in the car, with me, myself and I. No kids telling me what they need, and what they want, and how each other is bullying each other. So it was a dream in that way.

Martha Lewis: Right.

Kim Sutton: On the flip side, I drove through the night through the hills of Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia. And I was absolutely, Oh, and it was pouring rain. So by the time I got to Orlando, I was beat. I did stop for a half an hour, but in that half an hour, my mother and sister were texting me to find out how I was doing. I just decided that this is pointless, I’m just going to keep on going. So I got there, registered myself at the conference, went back up to my room, planning on just getting cleaned up to go back down, and sat down on the bed, this was 6:30 at night. I don’t even remember laying down, all I remember is waking up the next morning at 6:30. So I felt a little bit ashamed, embarrassed to tell people I slept for 12 hours last night. And then it occurred to me, why am I embarrassed? I had been awake since 6:00 o’clock the morning before and didn’t get to sleep until 18 hours, no 36 hours later.

Martha Lewis: Oh, my goodness.

Kim Sutton: There’s no reason to be embarrassed for sleeping and getting the self care that I needed, especially going into a conference. I’m not a hypochondriac, I just need to put it out there. But how about putting exhaustion and stress like that in a room of, who knows what germs are out there? That just seems like a huge magnet to me.

Martha Lewis: Oh, yeah, definitely.

Kim Sutton: And then I did the same thing when I came back. I mean, I drove, I got up early, had to speak, and then I drove through the night to come home, and it was the same type of thing. I ended up sleeping for 12 hours. And I got to say that when I got back, I didn’t feel guilty. So to the listener who feels guilty for getting the sleep that you deserve, please don’t.

Martha Lewis: Yeah.

Kim Sutton: What are some recommendations that you have for quieting a busy mind that cannot fall asleep?

Martha Lewis: Yes. Well, what you do during the day is definitely going to impact how you sleep at night and how busy your mind is at night. So I like to start with, even in the morning, instead of waking up to that alarm clock like we talked about, which puts you in stress mode because your body’s going to release cortisol at that time. I suggest waking up naturally and taking some time to yourself to start the day instead of just jumping into it. So having some sort of morning routine with self care can really help you just start the day off with those lower cortisol levels and then taking breaks throughout the day. So even just 5 or 10 minutes, every 90 minutes or so to step away from your desk or sit in your chair, close your eyes, do some deep breathing or go walk outside in the sunshine. You know, doing that every 90 minutes, again, is going to help lower those cortisol levels. Because if your cortisol levels are high all night or all day, they’re going to be high into the night, and you want pretty much zero cortisol in your body at night.

Kim Sutton: Can you expand on that a little bit? What is the cortisol? What is affecting the sleep at night?

Martha Lewis: Yes, it is. Exactly. So cortisol, as you may know, is one of our stress hormones. It kind of has a bad rap, but it’s a very necessary hormone that helps if it’s part of our fight or flight response. So I live in the mountains in Jackson, Wyoming so I like to talk about, if a bear is chasing you in the mountains, your body’s going to release cortisol, as well as adrenaline and epinephrine, and all these hormones that are going to help you literally fight or flee from that bear. But your body doesn’t know the difference between being chased by a bear, and being stuck in traffic, and constantly running late, and getting in an argument with your spouse, all of those things cause that same kind of stress response with those same physiological things that happen to your body. Again, if that’s happening all day long, it’s going to be really hard for your cortisol to lower at night when it’s time for bed. And cortisol also suppresses melatonin or sleep hormone, then we can get into what to do before bed, that’s why it’s also key to have a bedtime routine that ideally doesn’t involve screens at least 30 minutes or an hour before bed to let those cortisol levels lower, let your body produce melatonin so that you can sleep well at night.

Kim Sutton: I think one of the final keys to me that I needed is to stop watching movies. We don’t have cable, so my thing was movies for the longest time, or shows that I could watch on Netflix. But one of the final keys that I could not be doing right before bed was that my kids introduced me to The Walking Dead, and I started dreaming about zombies. I literally turned it off minutes before bedtime.

Martha Lewis: Yeah.

Kim Sutton: Yeah. You don’t need zombies chasing you through your sleep. 2019 was a particularly stressful year for me. I had some very difficult clients, and I did not realize until the beginning of 2020, when I was talking to a good friend I told her, I felt like my stress had an appetite of its own because I had a second belly. I’m just going to be totally honest here, I gained weight in 2019. I couldn’t even believe it, even though I was eating far less. She said to me: “Kim, it does, cortisol.” And it blew my mind, it had never occurred to me. I can’t say that the weight has been falling off, I’m marking on that, but I have actually get everything back together and got everything back on track. I’ve actually enlisted my 14 year old son who is a total jock and every single way to hold me accountable for exercising on a daily basis. I’ve told them, you need to ask me if I’ve exercised today, and if I say, no, then I owe you $5. But if you don’t ask me, that’s not my responsibility. I’m not going to tell you, no. So if you want $5, you better ask. So last night, he asked. Yesterday was the day that I came up with this idea. I actually, I did ask him because he’s in traveling soccer, and he’s on track, and he does a lot in the weight room, and has guided exercises that he learns from his coaches, I asked him, Hey, show me some good core exercises. So he and I, and then my three littles who are five-year-old twins and a six year old, we were all on the floor last night doing core exercises. And I got out of paying five bucks.

Martha Lewis: Nice. That’s a great strategy. I love it.

Kim Sutton: Five bucks is going to hurt me, and he’s going to love the Starbucks that you can go get with his friends. I would rather keep the five bucks and not have him up until 4:00 AM because he’s getting–

Martha Lewis: Right.

Kim Sutton: Well, I also found that journaling right before bed started to help me rather than Walking Dead, just getting all my thoughts. Any of those ideas that I had for what I needed to do the next day, what I was grateful for on this day, one of my coaches taught me how to have a forward gratitude practice, what I’m grateful for in the future that I know is coming, it’s not here yet. So just by journaling, all of that at the end of the day, that helped so much because, now, it’s not in my head swimming around. I have it documented, I’m not worried about losing it and I can go to sleep.

Martha Lewis: Yeah, definitely. That’s a great thing to do before bed. For me. I like meditating, but it’s kind of the same thing. It’s just letting those thoughts run through your head and not following them. That helps me sleep better at night and not wake up with your thoughts racing at that 3:00 and 4:00 AM hour.

Kim Sutton: Absolutely. And I’m curious, you said that you were trying to go to bed too early. When were you trying to go to bed? When do you go to bed now? And what have you found to be your sweet spot for sleeping hours?

Martha Lewis: I go to bed around 10:00 PM now and wake up around 6:00, maybe a little after. I definitely like a good eight hours of sleep usually. And before, I was trying to go to bed at like 9:00, 9:30 because I wasn’t sleeping, I was exhausted. I felt absolutely exhausted, but then I wouldn’t be able to fall asleep.

Kim Sutton: I laugh now because my sister and I used to joke behind my mom’s back when we were young because mom would tell us that it was bedtime at 9:00 o’clock, even when we are 16, 17, 18. Why? Because I’m tired. So I’m 17, seriously? Think I’m going to go to bed at 8:00 o’clock, what do you think I am for? But now as parents. Oh, my gosh. I know my sister and I are probably on the same wavelength as mom was back then. Hallelujah the kids are in bed. Are they sleeping? Yes. Okay, I can go to sleep now too.

Martha Lewis: Teenagers definitely get, they have a later circadian rhythm and so they are not going to be sleepy at 8:00 o’clock at night.

Kim Sutton: Oh, yeah. Yeah. One of my kids came home from school earlier this week with pink eyes because he couldn’t go back to sleep, or he couldn’t go back to school for 48 hours. He took it upon himself to believe that that means it’s the weekend and he can stay up as late as he wants. So it’s 2:00 AM and he’s playing video games, shouting in the discord. We’re like, what are you doing? Go to bed. We understand that pink eyes are not the flu, but this isn’t a free pass to just make it a weekend for you and everybody else in the house.

Martha Lewis: Right.

Kim Sutton: His brother, another teenager was right down the hall. I have friends who live in other parts of the country. I mean, I’m in Ohio where my teenagers get on the bus at 6:30 in the morning and are out of school by 2:15. I mean, I’m also in farm country so there’s a lot of kids who go and assist on farms and such, or they have jobs, they have sports. I know that’s the same around the country, but I know that in some other areas of the country, they’ve actually flipped the starting time for the high schoolers, with the elementary schools.

Martha Lewis: Yup.

Kim Sutton: Because of those changing patterns. And I think that’s amazing.

Martha Lewis: Yeah, exactly. I mean, actually my town Jackson, Wyoming has one of the latest high school start times in the country.

Kim Sutton: Really? What time is that?

Martha Lewis: I think 9:00, I’m not sure because I have a three year old. Yeah, it’s definitely after 8:00, I would say between 8:00 and 9:00. But they found that it’s made such a big difference as far as test scores, and kids being able to concentrate and everything. Because that’s how important sleep is for learning, remembering things and everything. So, yeah.

Kim Sutton: Wow. Well, my 14 year old told me last night that he’s planning on getting a job this summer. I asked him where? McDonald’s will hire a 14 year old apparently in our town, I’m not sure about that. But then I started thinking about it. So if he keeps his jobs through the school year, he’s got school starting before the sun rises, then he has whatever sports practice because he’ll be a freshman in the fall. He’ll basically have practice year round, and then he thinks he’s gonna fit a job in there, and homework.

Martha Lewis: Yeah.

Kim Sutton: No. So I’m trying to impress upon them, you know, I understand that you want to make money, you want to save for a car you’re going to be driving soon and I get, but you have to make a choice. Just because you think you can do everything doesn’t mean you should.

Martha Lewis: Yeah, definitely.

Kim Sutton: I would rather have him come home, do some chores and I pay him.

Martha Lewis: There you go.

Kim Sutton: Yeah. But I think just the outside authority means more to him because he, yeah, that’s a whole nother story. Good luck with that when you’re–

Martha Lewis: I can’t wait.

Kim Sutton: Yeah. Yeah. So what are you most excited about in your business in the months ahead or in the year ahead?

Martha Lewis: Well, I’ve been doing lots of cool podcasts interviews like this, and speaking engagements, and really just trying to spread awareness about how important sleep is. I also give people the hope that if they haven’t been able to sleep, that we can figure it out. I just believe that we are all meant to sleep well. Yes, there are some very rare sleep disorders that literally keep people from sleeping. But for the most part, our brains, our bodies need to sleep. It’s just a matter of figuring out for someone who hasn’t been able to sleep for decades like there’s something physiologically going on, that’s keeping them from sleeping. We can find that and turn that all around. That’s just really exciting for me, to help people like that in such a big way.

Kim Sutton: Martha, thank you. Because one of the things that I’ve been saying on the show and to anybody who will let me say it lately is, my goal is to get business owners away from their business and back into bed. At first, eyebrows raised. Yes, I have five kids. I know what happens in bed sometimes, but that is not my goal here. I seriously want to get people through what I do, which is marketing automation. I want to get them away from there, I want the laptop on top to close. I want them to enjoy dinner with their family. In 2018, I had dinner with my family 10 times.

Martha Lewis: Wow.

Kim Sutton: Because I was always at my desk. So my goal is to have people shut down their computer or just close it up, put down their phones and get into bed without any of them and sleep. I need to throw this out there, this is totally TMI. But for people who are having trouble sleeping already, I had to let my husband know that when I am sleeping, and it’s 3:00 o’clock and you’re just coming to bed, that’s not a good time to wake me up because you want some. I am sleeping and I need my sleep. I’m sorry, I know that’s TMI, but we have to put those boundaries up on all parts of our life. Whether it’s telling clients, don’t text me before this hour of day, don’t text me after this hour of day. Whether it’s telling our significant other, these times are okay, unless it’s a weekend and I’m still awake. That is totally acceptable, building boundaries took me 40 years. And I’m kicking my butt now that it took me that long. But often building those boundaries isn’t as offensive to everybody else as we thought it would be. We’re overly concerned that they won’t like us when in fact, they have more respect for us because we have asserted what we need.

Martha Lewis: Exactly. I love how you’re all about that.

Kim Sutton: Yeah. It took me 40 years, and I’m 41. Yeah. Well, where can listeners find you online, connect and get to know more about you?

Martha Lewis: Yeah. My website is thecompletesleepsolution.com. And then I’m on Facebook and Instagram under Complete Sleep Solution. And I also have a Facebook Community of smart sleepers called Sleep Well Live Well, and I would love it if anyone wants to join that. I go live there every week and talk about all things related to sleep to help people get the sleep they need.

Kim Sutton: Absolutely love that. Listeners, all those things will be in the show notes, which you can find in thekimsutton.com/pp678. Martha, this has been absolutely amazing, I so appreciate what you do, thank you. You are a gift to the world. And regardless, listeners, whether you’re rolling your eyes right now, because you feel like people who sleep are lazy. No, they’re not. You will learn someday. And I’m sorry, but I don’t want you to learn someday the hard way. Just give yourself grace, close your laptop, turn off your phone right now and go to bed. Martha, thank you so much. Do you have a parting piece of advice or a golden nugget that you can offer to listeners?

Martha Lewis: I would just say, prioritize sleep, exactly what you’re saying, and to get help if you are having trouble sleeping.