PP 695: Stop Stalling Short the Finish Line with Bridgit Dengel Gaspard

 The worst moment ever: when you’re almost there… Then suddenly you’re stuck! Bridgit Dengel Gaspard calls this phenomenon, “The Final 8th”. In this episode, Kim and Bridgit unlock the mystery behind this strange event, a voice dialogue technique for entrepreneurs.

What is the Final 8th? Why do many get stuck right before the finish line? What goals and practices can be detrimental to success? Most importantly, how can you move towards your goal fast while having fun along the journey. Press play and discover the enchanting path of safe success! 

“If you practice safe success, you can take care of yourself so that you can continue, and not sabotage it in some way that surprises you.” -Bridgit Dengel Gaspard


02:35 The Final 8th
09:51 Mirage Goal 
13:58 Voice Dialogue Technique 
22:24 Practice Safe Success
29:50 Are You Having Fun? 
37:30 What Rules Are You Living By? 
41:09 Say YES to Yourself More!
51:23 Live As If Any Moment You Could Get the Absolute Good News”


Can’t get out of stuck mode one step short of the finish line? Join @thekimsutton and @BridgitGaspard as they list practical ways on how to cross the finish line in a fun and fulfilling way! #positiveproductivity #podcast #Final8th #voicedialogue #clutterself #FUN #YESmeClick To Tweet



The Final 8th: Enlist Your Inner Selves to Accomplish Your Goals by Bridgit Dengel Gaspard 


Shower Epiphanies Podcast by Art Costello


Inspirational Quotes:

15:52 “Too much perfectionism can hurt you.” -Bridgit Dengel Gaspard

17:18 “Working hard, was never the problem nor the solution for me, because I already was.” -Bridgit Dengel Gaspard

18:26 “If (money) becomes your only mirror of success or worth in all your other areas of your life, money makes you a target and you’re not going to enjoy it for some reason.” -Bridgit Dengel Gaspard

22:56 “If you practice safe success, you can take care of yourself so that you can continue, and not sabotage it in some way that surprises you.” -Bridgit Dengel Gaspard

33:20 “When we have an important message in our brand, it’s our responsibility to share that. Don’t get overwhelmed by all these people who are talking about becoming millionaires and billionaires, because that might not be what’s most important to us.” -Kim Sutton

33:28 “If it doesn’t fascinate one, don’t do it. We don’t need it.” -Bridgit Dengel Gaspard

35:40 “The good news about where we are, is that there’s more room for people to live their passion. And that’s what’s going to help us all in our varying ways.” -Bridgit Dengel Gaspard

40:09 “No one wins when you’re burnt out.” -Bridgit Dengel Gaspard

About Bridgit Dengel Gaspard:

Bridgit Dengel Gaspard stumbled upon the wild and innovative technique of Voice Dialogue while performing professionally in NYC. This chance encounter was transformational. She became a master trainer, earned her MSW from Columbia University, and switched careers. As a therapist and creativity coach, she witnessed her talented, dedicated clients get 7/8 of the way towards their cherished goals and mysteriously, and miserably, halt in front of their finish line. She identified this inability to take the last triumphant steps as the final 8th–the phenomenon of not being able to transform from the identity and role of a contender to a victor. This led to her creating “The Final 8th: Enlist Your Inner Selves to Accomplish Your Goals,” a comprehensive guide to getting radically unstuck and liberating your dreams

My friends, I’m so happy you are here to join me and our awesome guest today, Bridgit Dengel Gaspard. Because already in our pre chat, I learned that my archetype is poor.

And if you’ve been listening to the Positive Productivity Podcast for a while, you know that I coined a phrase called Chronic Idea Disorder, the never-ending supply of entrepreneurial ideas. I have it and I’ve been struggling with it.

And I’d love to know from you all have struggled with an abundance of ideas when it comes to actually getting stuff done, finishing projects, if you’ve struggled in the long run… Because that’s what Bridgit and I are going to be talking a lot about today.

Bridgit was telling me right in the pre-chat that there’s an archetype type, is that the right way of saying it Bridgit? Archetype?

Some people say archetype, I say archetype.

Oh, I like it either.

Like tomato and tomato, I guess.

Yes. But anyway, poor? Is that how we decided that we’re gonna say it, the poor archetype?


It just made me laugh. Because if we don’t control our ideas, then we’re going to be poor, P-O-O-R. So that P-U-E-R archetypes can lead to P-O-O-R.

Bridgit, I’m so sorry I skirted around the welcome, I am so happy you’re here. And the energy just in the first, like 10 minutes of chatting with you has been amazing.

I agree.

The Final 8th, voice dialogue technique for entrepreneurs

Would you mind sharing or just giving the audience a brief introduction of who you are? And, well, I’m just gonna say that you wrote The Final 8th… How did that come to be?

Yes, I wrote The Final 8th.

Voice dialogue technique

Enlist Your Inner Selves to Accomplish Your Goals.

It came to be because I, like so many others, would get 7/8’s of the way toward a goal. And I’d work really hard and I’d be dedicated to it, and then get stalled inside of the finish line. It would be very painful, I’d be stuck and I wouldn’t know why. I wouldn’t understand, because I felt like I was doing all the right things, which I was.

So ultimately, the term, The Final 8th, literally came to me like a gift from the Muses, because I’m a therapist, a coach, I teach voice dialogue techniques. I can give you some backstory later, but I realized, when I was listening to different clients from different backgrounds, with different career goals, in different fields, they’d fall into this quagmire right at the finish line. And I realized that it was a thing, so to speak.

Talented, creative, dedicated people get 7th of the way there. And by that Final 8th, they get stuck.

What is a Voice Dialogue technique?

So, I do this work called Voice Dialogue. This voice dialogue technique was developed by my mentors, the doctors Sidra and Hal Stone. And it’s a wonderful technique where you literally embody different parts of yourself and dialogue from their point of view, and you get their wisdom and their concerns.

What happens is you’ve got a whole bunch of your inner parts that help you get 7/8’s of the way there. And then boom, you’ve got to either cultivate new parts for the Final 8th to basically go from contender to victor. Or you’ve got parts of you that are scared of success and maybe even attached to some core negative beliefs that you learned early in your life.

With this technique, which I guide readers through, step by step, you get to learn what the agenda of the selves are. Because all of our parts serve the noble purpose of protection. So, when you know that, you realize:

“Okay, so I’m stuck. There’s a good reason somewhere.”

And instead of resisting resistance, you can then go to the inner part of yourself that’s resistance, and ask:

“What’s going on? What does it care about?”

Often, it’s something you had not thought of. And that’s why it’s a mystery that you’re stuck. So that part might tell you, “Maybe you don’t have enough skills to be assertive. So, more people are going to want and expect things from you.” This resistor part is actually protecting you from failing in the future, when you don’t have enough of a foundation to support your success, for example.

But we wouldn’t know that without that voice dialogue technique, it’s great for entrepreneurs.

The double bind

I love that you brought up the fear, I’m loving every part of this. Because I know that the fear is what kept me stuck for the longest time, at that last milestone. I was scared of either not making money off my project or off my programs. And this is gonna sound sort of funny, but actually, making a lot of money off the programs… I was afraid of a lot of money.

I’ve learned through a lot of work on myself, and with coaches, that my money mindset was all about, to spend it quickly before anybody else does. So, we were used to living on zero. When money would come in, it would get spent. And I was afraid of what would happen to me.

Sort of like lottery winners who a lot of dads go even deeper into the hole after they win just because they made stupid spending decisions. I was afraid that that would happen to me, if I actually had a product that launched well.

And I talked about that.

So, and tell me if I haven’t gotten this correctly, but internally, you put yourself in a double bind. Talking voice dialog technique, you were in a tug of war between the parts of you that wanted a lot of money, and then the parts of you that didn’t want a lot of money… For whatever reason, including pressure.


A lot of people have that, that double bind. They don’t realize that they actually have fear of success, really, of having a lot.

People might ask them for loans and things that they don’t want to do. But it’s easy when you don’t have the money to say NO to a loan request, for example.

But what if you do? Like you said, a lot of lottery winners declare bankruptcy and worse. So not only do they lose the money, they end up worse than they were before they won this enormous amount of money. Because you’re right, they didn’t have a healthy relationship with money, period.

But also, they probably had a double bind between the parts that thought they were worth moving with it. And the parts that said, “Oh, no way, too dangerous.”

Understanding your very own relationship with money

We had, maybe 15 years ago… I’m in Southwest Ohio, and in the town north of us there were a whole bunch of city workers who won the mega millions. Which was like $150 million split amongst 12 people. And most of these employees may have made 30 or $40,000 a year. And that’s probably going on the high side, to be fair.

Wow, ok!

But I’m forgetting that people were crawling out of the woodwork… Long lost relatives who hadn’t wanted to give them the time of day before. But now that they know they’ve won the lottery, “Yeah, I’d love to have you in my life again.”

It’s actually very painful, isn’t it? You just feel used.

And there’s a family that I’m strained with, not to that extent. But there’s that part of me that would wonder, “Would that be the same for me?” I don’t want to build relationships based upon where I am financially standing.

I do want to put out there, though, that a big part of my life, when I was struggling in that mindset, was that I thought that my success was based on money. And I’ve shifted that, my worth, my self-worth isn’t dependent anymore on how much money I make, or how much money is in my bank account. Because I’m realizing that there’s a whole lot more to life than just that.

And isn’t that liberating? That’s huge, what you’re just said.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think I was 39 or 40. I’m only 41 now, but I believe I was 39 or 41 when that Finally started to click.


So, it’s still a new thing to me, I’m still getting used to it. It feels like a shiny present. It still has that fresh new smell of new electronics.


And I’m enjoying breathing that air.

Wow. I think that’s great, because it’s all so true. The attitude of what you just shared, then you can understand why people really suffer after they win this lottery.

Are you chasing Mirage Goals?

I think that when you don’t have that awareness, people are so blinded by, well… Money is the object, money is the solution, money is the problem, money is also the solution; once again, it never ends. They can’t see what’s underneath, because if they’re so blinded by “more money = better”, “better = you’re a better person”, etc, and that’s just not true.

I actually call that a Mirage Goal, it tricks you. So, you chase it and then it’s like:

“But wait, where’s the satisfaction that I was thinking that I was going to get? I’ve actually done it.”

A lot of my clients come because they’ve had success. And that’s why I call a lot of The Final 8th issues, Success Issues: They’ve done it, but it didn’t do what they thought it would do for them, emotionally or spiritually.

That’s what The Final 8th and a good voice dialogue technique can also be: Enjoying on a fuller level, all that you have wherever you are. Not chasing Mirage Goals as if that’s going to give you fulfillment, a bank account number.

Learning how to listen to yourself through a voice dialogue technique

I have two teenagers. And I love that you just said “Mirage Goals”, because I’m going to have to share that with them as well. One of them Finally has it through his head that he’s actually a senior, he’s graduating high school this year and getting college admissions now.


Thank you, it’s so scary.

I know!

We’re waiting for the last two to come in now, and then he’ll make his decision. But he Finally picked a major based on something that he’s really passionate about, versus something that he was or went into, because he thought he could make a lot of money.

And coincidentally, the major that he picked… And listeners, I’m sure you’ve heard before too: We’re a video gaming family. We love our electronics, we love computers and everything. While I haven’t played in probably about six weeks, it’s a big part of our life, playing together.

But anyway, he decided to go into computer engineering because he wants to build bigger and better, or smaller and better, components for computers. He’s just so passionate about it, and he loves it. But he was thinking that he wanted to be an accountant originally. I was like, “Why?” I couldn’t imagine.

And no offense to accountants out there, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you… But both my parents were accountants. I knew that was the last thing I wanted to do. He said: “Well, because I think they make a lot of money.” And I said: “But is that a good reason? Don’t you want to get into something that you’re really passionate about?” So, he thought about it and changed his mind.

The importance of understanding where your desires come from

My 15-year-old on the other hand, we had an issue a couple summers ago where he asked me to drop him off a couple blocks away from where he and his friends were all meeting.

Because, at that time, I was driving a 1996 conversion van. And he didn’t want to be embarrassed. So, he kept on asking me: “When are we going to buy something new?” “When are we going to buy something new?” And “Mom, look at that car.”

And I was admittedly a little bit butthurt from it.


But I also needed him to understand that how successful we are as a family isn’t determined by what vehicle we’re driving.

I have finally upgraded my vehicle everybody… It’s amazing! And I don’t say that to brag, but he’s not embarrassed anymore. And it also came with an awesome lesson for him that we bought a two-year-old car and we saved like, we paid a third of what it would have been, brand new off the lot.

There were multiple lessons to be learned off of that, and I hope he gets the rest of the way. And I’ll just have to keep on coaching him. But I love the concept of the Mirage Goal.

Voice dialogue technique as an entrepreneur and a comedian

What was your journey up to The Final 8th? How did you know that this was a book you needed to write?

So, I’m a former performer, and also a believer in synchronicity, and just enjoying saying Yes to the unexpected. When I discovered Colin Wilson, who now passed, and read about him… He was a British writer from the 1950’s and 60’s, and he said:

“Live as if at any moment, you could get the absurd good news.”

And I loved that: Why not choose optimism? His whole thing was that pessimism and nihilism often had the sheen of intellectual superiority. And his thesis was, “Why? You can be an optimist and live a life that way, and have lots of heft.”

So, there was something in discovering the strength of that. That happened at the same time that I was performing in New York City, and I was doing improvisation and comedy. I did stand up and I discovered through a book, this technique called Voice Dialogue, which I mentioned. And I thought “This sounds amazing!”

Since I was doing improvisation and this Voice Dialogue was described as embodying different parts of yourself, that fitted just what I was doing anyway. So, I thought, “Well, this sounds like a great technique for exploring characters and exploring new material.” And, I hunted them down, which in those days, it was their 800 number.

Use a voice dialogue technique to heal yourself, and your business

So, I started to get Voice Dialogue sessions, and now I train people to do that, I give people Voice Dialogue sessions. I learned about myself, my different parts that led with, I learned where they lived in my body, what their agendas were, what their gifts were, and also what their sting was.

A perfectionist voice used wisely helps you have a certain high standard, that’s something you care about. But too much perfectionism, I’m sure you know, can really hurt you. You don’t get sleep, you end up missing deadlines because it’s not perfect…

So, the more I got into Voice Dialogue and started to train as a trainer, I watched people transform so quickly when they realized they were so much more than they thought they were.

Just by doing this, the Voice Dialogue technique, and getting access to their different cells, was healing in and of itself.

It started to just consume me that I moved over, went back to school. I went to Columbia University and got my master’s in social work to become a therapist, because I just was taken so fully with the healing powers of this work. And then I got clinical training and experience, which I think is really important. And now, I’ve come full circle, I’ve got all that under my belt.

So, I, myself, have walked away from projects that were very painful. Still, I have a little sadness because I wasn’t able to complete things that I cared about. And I worked hard.

Working hard as procrastination

That was the other thing, people would say things like, “Well, you just have to show up.” And I would think long before as a therapist, I didn’t have the language for any of this that I’m using with you… But I think to myself, “I show up not only every day, probably 18 hours a day I show up.”

That’s not my issue. Working hard was never the problem nor the solution for me, because I already was. So, they say that your clients come to you once you’re right for, and my client base was full of people like that.

But the problem wasn’t about working hard, and then, like I told you, The Final 8th concept just came to me, and that’s how I knew I wanted to write the book. It took me a long time, I used to say, “Oh, I’m still working on finishing my book I’m not finishing.” Now, I can’t say that anymore, I have to come up with new punchlines, which I’m happy to do. So that’s how it happened… It’s like the book I would have loved to have read 20 years ago.

It starts off introducing this wonderful technique, and it really gets into the depth, which we have touched upon: The Double Bind, when you literally have parts of yourself in a tug of war, with another different parts.

Just like in your relationships with money. There’s the part that says, “Yeah, I want a lot of money. And there’s nothing wrong with that.” In fact, we need enough money to live, how we choose to live.

It’s an energy, it’s the currency of our era.

The toxic face of money

I’m not at all against money. But if it becomes your only mirror of success or worth in all your other areas of your life, or like we discussed, if there’s something you’re afraid of… Like that money would make you a target, that you’re not going to enjoy for some reason. Most people aren’t aware of it.

This book really helps you identify your double bind. The parts of you that are not in. And it’s because you’re so close that it comes up.

And we have discomfort as humans, physiologically, so we pay attention. Instead of being upset with yourself because you don’t feel good about this stuckness, say:

“Okay, this not-feeling-good is actually a call for me to pay attention. However, paying attention currently isn’t working.”

And that’s another reason I wanted to write the book, as a way for people to explore, a whole new way to dig in and unknot their double bind so that they can cross the finish line.

Using voice dialogue techniques to understand success

I have no doubt that I have struggled with paying enough attention to myself. Number one, and two… and this is beside the point, but it’s included as well to my family over the years. But the family was the result of not paying enough attention to myself.

Going back to what you were saying about showing up. I was showing up so much physically. I could say the same thing that you were: I was showing up 18, sometimes 20 hours a day, seven days a week, but I was not there emotionally. That’s the best thing I can say, I was not there.

Maybe consciously too, maybe fully or more conscious.

Yeah! And going back to Chronic Idea Disorder. I Finally figured out that the reason why I haven’t been working on my book. It was because I’ve been in my book physically, but my passion wasn’t there, I wasn’t writing it from the right voice.

I wasn’t writing it from my voice, I was writing it from the voice that I thought publishers and readers would expect, but not the one that I knew I needed to write it from.

When did you come up with that insight? Because that’s so empowering.

It’s probably been… About a year.

Oh, okay.

The big O’s and Safe Success

This is so inappropriate, I’m sorry, I’ve shared it with listeners, actually. I’m sorry, but I’m not sorry.

Don’t be sorry…

Oh, well, you can be sorry and you can be not sorry too. You see? You can be both with Voice Dialogue in The Final 8th.

I was having a conversation with a podcasting friend, Donnie Boivin, and… This is a true side effect of Chronic Idea Disorder: Ideas just hit me all the time. We’ll get into one of those ideas a little bit, because I was inspired by something else that you said.

But I was talking to Donnie, and all of a sudden it hit me, Chronic Idea Disorders are like bad sex.


Sorry, I know it’s somewhat inappropriate.

No, hahaha. I do have to hear more. Go on!

I’m sorry guys, but this comment is totally for the women: It’s like going for the Big O, you can try, and try, and try, and try… But you’re likely to not get there. If you don’t know how to manage it, being Chronic Idea Disorder.

And it’s so parallel to everything that we’re talking about. It’s the finish line, we just don’t get there.

Exactly. I’m taking a little adjustment for a second here, now I have to imagine the way you’re describing this, because I totally agree.

But you also made me think of a positive side of Chronic Idea Disorder.

I call them the Big Outcomes. Okay? So…

Ooh, I love it.

As far as chronic disorder, the big O is going to be the multiple outcomes. And there’s the physical outcome that will result, there’s the emotional and just the adrenaline that you’ll have when you actually complete something.

Yes! And in my book, I talk about practicing Safe Success.

Hahaha! We did not script any of this.

None of it!

I love it.

It’s true. We did agree we would go with our flow, and it’s flowing.

So, because that’s the other thing, it can just disappear. If you’re the successor, the big O’s, and if you practice Safe Success, you can take care of yourself so that you can continue and you don’t sabotage and blow it in some way that surprises you.

One of the things, and this is based on one of your podcasts that you talked about, which I just adore: When you give people really concrete ideas of how to capture the chronic ideas that you have in a disorder episode.

So then, the parts of you that know that those are good ideas, and are also maybe anxious, like, “Oh, my gosh, I don’t want to lose them.” You came up with such great hints about how to capture them. To me that is also practicing Safe Success.

It’s true that you can’t do them all at once. But if you have a system… And I talk about sometimes about the Feng Shui, like, how does your environment? And it could be through computers, and technology, or physical. Like, what’s your file cabinet look like, or your bookcase?

If those are places that support your Final 8th goals, or the future Final 8th goals coming out of a chronic idea episode, then that is much more productive.

And I love that then you have many O’s, that you get to in a timely fashion when the timing is right.

How to use a voice dialogue technique to Unclutter the Mind

I am just blown away that you brought up Feng Shui because, I would say 2014, 2015… Shortly after we moved into this house, it was on one of the first episodes with a Feng Shui consultant. We talked a little bit after we finished recording, and I expressed some of the struggles that I was experiencing in life and business.

She asked me how my desk was facing. And at that point, I was facing a corner. And she said: “Well, you’re running into the wall.”

And I have to say that after I turned my desk around and started facing the room, more opportunities started presenting themselves. However, there is that bit of struggle that I frequently face, and I just need to put it out there, with clutter. Because a cluttered space gives me a cluttered mind.

Like, right now, I’m looking at stuff that my kids left on my desk. I don’t know why my family thinks that I need to manage the mail. So, they’ll just throw the mail on my desk. Or, I’m looking at the air conditioner that was taken out of the window, it’s just on the floor in the office, and it’s driving me crazy.

Those little clutter bits will pollute my mind and prevent me from achieving stuff because they take over that valuable space.

Exactly, and we could do this if you want to. But we could also say, if we were going to work together in the voice dialogue technique of the Final 8th process, we would go and talk to your clutter-self and, without judgment, we might ask your clutter-self,

“What do you care about? What do you like about clutter? What’s your best clutter success?”

So, you really get to hear from that part of you that you’re defining as a problem, and it is. Because I bet you would find out wild things if we really went to your clutter-self and listened to it.

And also, again, all of this is in the book: You can ask your clutter-self, “So where do you live in Kim’s, body or mind, clutter-self?” and Bridgit’s body. So, it also helps build awareness like, “Oh, I can feel my clutter-self.” And then I could feel the self that doesn’t like the clutter.

That’s another way in into a voice dialogue technique, where it’s like embracing the thing that bothers you, knowing that there’s wisdom somewhere. And it does not mean you, thus, have to live with clutter. Not at all. That’s the fear, but not the fact. That might be fun for you to explore.

Having a good relationship with every part of yourself

Oh, and the other thing I want to go back to… I’m just so happy to hear that you’re writing your book, from your point of view.

What helped me was realizing I was just going to write it. Because I too was thinking, “Well, what would a publisher like?” Then I thought, “Let me just write this book.” Then, because of the power of self-publishing, I realized:

“Oh, I don’t need a publisher to publish this. If worse comes to worse, that’s my plan B.”

And kind of like the desk thing, when I finished it, I ended up getting the publisher of my dreams, which is New World Library.

But to write the book, I gave up all ideas of publishing fantasies, and then I wrote the book! And then, the paradox is my publishing fantasy came true. So, I just want to support that. And even like going through the clutter-self, the paradox often is: Suddenly there’s less clutter because you have a direct relationship with your own clutter-self.

I have a friend, also another podcaster, Art Costello, and his podcast is Shower Epiphanies, just need to give a shout out to Art. He did not ask for this pitch. But a lot of what he talks about is releasing expectations. And it sounds like when you let go of the expectations, you were allowed to let flow.

I’ve seen for myself, and I’ve seen with a lot of clients as well, that when we release those expectations on ourselves… For example, releasing the expectation that my course is going to sell a lot. Just doing it because that’s what I want to do, without the expectation of making money off of it, I gave myself permission to have a lot more fun in the creation process.

That’s amazing.

And again, it might be a cliche about embracing the paradox, but what better lifestyle choice than one that includes fun instead of funds all the time? That’s my clutter, right there.

Uhmm, that’s twittable.

Hahaha! Just came out.

But seriously, that’s how I’ve started to expand the definition of lifestyle. The inner lifestyle is really how you go through your day. The bank account is what it is, so fun! That’s one of my big happy love language words.

Clubhouse with Kim and Bridgit

You are just feeding Chronic Idea Disorder. I need to let you know that I’m not normally here, because I like to be in the conversation fully. I mean, to me, that’s my responsibility, to be in the conversation fully. But you keep on feeding my brain with topic ideas, and I just need to throw this out there:

Listeners, we’re recording this in early 2021. I don’t like to timestamp, but Clubhouse is a new thing. So, make sure to check out the show notes page to get both Bridgit and my Clubhouse ID so that you can be following us on there. Because we are going to be having a follow up conversation over there. Maybe not about voice dialogue techniques for entrepreneurs, but we’ll be there.

But you have me thinking about all these other conversations that we can be having now. “Funds or fun”, it’s a topic for entrepreneurs. Or, “Showing up physically and emotionally as an entrepreneur”. I’m making this whole list of conversations that you and I can be having over there, because they’re having conversations that need to be heard.

And that’s one thing that I’ve seen on that platform, is the authenticity is shining through. You can totally feel it when somebody is not being authentic.

Carrying authenticity in your Voice

I’m just going to pick on showing up physically and emotionally. 

I was in a podcasting room the other day, and somebody was talking about a podcast that they were about to launch. And the person seriously sounded like the teacher from Ferris Bueller’s Day Off… Bored! When they were telling the room about their podcast topic.

When you can’t be excited about what you’re creating, then how can you get anybody else to be excited about it? I’m not saying that we need to go and be the most excitable person on the face of the planet. I know that there’s people out there who have 10,000 times more energy than I do.

When I’m behind the mic I have a whole ton more energy behind the mic than I do in, well, even in the pre-chat. I mean, my energy was still awesome there, but there it’s amplified. The authenticity on Clubhouse is amazing, however, I know that there’s still people who are looking for the solutions. “How do we move past where we are?”

I just want to follow that little bit up with something. I know this is a whole spiel on Clubhouse, but really fast: When I first got in, I saw all these rooms about how to become a millionaire and then undercover billionaire conversations, Grant Cardone is in those rooms. It came a little bit too much for me, because that’s not my focus anymore.

And, great! I know a lot of people want to know how to be a millionaire or a billionaire, but how about “How to impact people with our business”? “How to make sure that your purpose is showing through in your business”? and how about living with that first in mind?

So, I realized that we need to share. When we have an important message in our brand, then it’s our responsibility to share that.

So don’t get overwhelmed by all these people who are talking about becoming millionaires and billionaires, because that might not be what’s most important to us.

Exactly. And depending on who you are, that may be secondary, but they don’t realize it.

Finding fascination in your own Voice

If you follow your gift and your passion, you want to make money, ideally, and for some people that really is their goal… They’re like, “I like making money.” It’s a game, and it’s a strategy, and it’s exciting. Then that’s fine because they really are connected to their passion, they don’t need a voice dialogue technique to understand that desire. But if it feels, again, like chasing Mirage Goals or status, and then you get the status and you don’t feel any better.

I’m just even wondering, and it doesn’t matter in the larger sense, but this podcaster you described as not so bored with his own subject, you have to wonder, is he doing it because some part of him is a Should part? He’s like, “Well, I guess I Should do a podcast. And I guess if I do it, it Should be about this?”

Then, if I were working with him in a voice dialogue technique for entrepreneurs, it would be like: “Let’s go to that should-self” and then we’d say, “Well, what would you like to do? What do you do when you get some time off? Well, what if we could use that thing that you like and make sure that you get to on Saturdays.” That could be a better, much better podcast.

Oh, and I know for me, and my guess is you too, if someone is fascinated with something that either I’ve never heard of, or I didn’t think of as something fascinating… If they think it’s fascinating, and they explained to me the fascination, I’m fascinated.

There was a time… I can drive but I’m not a truck driver. There was this whole documentary series on truck drivers, regulations, how they work, and all of this stuff. Which isn’t what you think of when you think of me, those that know me. But because it was so fascinating to the documentary makers, I was pulled in, I watched.

There were three full episodes and I watched them all. Because the fascination that they shared pulled me in, I’m like, “This is fascinating.” So, I’m just agreeing with you… If it doesn’t fascinate one, don’t do it. We don’t need it either.

The world doesn’t need another podcast because someone feels they Should do one. There’s no more SHOULD room on this planet.

The good news about where we are is that there’s more room for people to live their passion, and that’s what’s going to help us all in our varying ways.

Let’s hear our passionate-self

I have to admit, Positive Productivity was a Should when it first started.

Oh…! Say more.


I have no doubt, with my faith, that God gave me the name Positive Productivity. But I didn’t know what the podcast was about. I had just been hearing, “Everybody should have a podcast.” So, I did.

I almost launched two podcasts at the same time. I’m very thankful that I dropped one of them. Because I realized I just didn’t have the passion for the second one, and I wanted to stay with Positive Productivity.

I was totally following income at that point, my goal was to get sponsors. And now, I don’t want sponsors on the show, period. I’d rather talk about the products that I use and the guests use, and maybe throw an affiliate link in there. But no, I’m not out there to get sponsorships. It was totally “I should”. And I’ve learned to stop Shoulding on myself.

Another one freeing, right?

Isn’t that liberating when you’re like, “Oh, wait a minute. Get off me shoulder!” Which is very different from saying, “I choose to do something that I actually don’t want to do at the moment. But because I care about this person and they need me, I’m choosing too.”

So, none of this is about not doing something that you may be, aren’t preferring to do. You still might choose to do the thing you don’t actually prefer to in the moment, but it’s a choice. And it’s not Shoulding all over you.

I also think people sometimes confuse that, then you start to be self-involved, selfish and unethical. I’m just saying: No! It doesn’t mean that when you stop Shoulding all over yourself, you actually have much more power to be truly ethical and to truly say, “Yes, I will do this” or “No, I won’t do that.”

A good voice dialogue technique it’s really empowering at this point because I think, sometimes, people worry that if they don’t have their SHOULD SELF activated, they’ll start to get selfish.

That’s a word I work with a lot with my clients. And I like to say self-full. “Alright, let’s talk to the part of you that judges you for being self-full. And let’s talk to the self-full part.”

Voice dialogues techniques and passion are all about honesty

That’s another thing my book gets into, it’s what language we use that reflects the rules that we’re living by, and we don’t even know it. Like, “You should do X.” Well, sometimes, we’re not even conscious that that’s what’s up foot.

There’s so much behind all this. And I just need to share with listeners.

I mean, if you’ve been around a while, you know that the show just reformatted again, and that was another “Should” that I had to get rid of. So maybe I’m not done Shoulding on myself. It’s an ongoing everlasting process, where I’ll be getting “Shoulds” until the end of time. I mean, there’s things “I should”: I should be feeding my kids clean organic foods, but we still eat McDonald’s more than I want to admit.

So, with the brief formatting of the show, I realized that my show was becoming more about the guests. No offense to you, Bridgit. I mean, you’re here.

None taken.

And that I was losing my voice in it, and it was also just burning me out still. So, I just need to put this out there because you know how transparent I am… My team and I, we went through my calendar and we just deleted every single podcast episode that was coming up with a guest. And unfortunately for Bridgette, and my apologies to you, because we didn’t even look at what the topic was going to be about. We just cleared it all off the board.

So, we made a calendar for this year of what the theme of each month is. And then we decided that we would get one guest for each month that would be perfectly in line. And then after the fact, I realized, “Oops, I deleted people that I really shouldn’t have deleted.” So, thank you Bridgit for rescheduling because, I mean, clearly, you were supposed to be here.

Oh, no. My pleasure.

And can I just say, I actually really appreciate your honesty about that. It’s really empowering, because it’s true. No one wins, least of all you when you’re burnt out. There’s a lot, people can even have shame. Or they’re like, “Oh, I don’t want to share what’s really going on.”

So, I do think you’re a really great example of empowering people to admit what’s going on to themselves and shift. A lot of people don’t allow themselves to pivot to use another current word, because they feel that that means they’re inconsistent.

I often ask: What rule says inconsistency is bad. First of all, and what does it even mean when you say “Inconsistent”?

So, I just want to reflect on having been a listener of your podcast as well, and looking and really learning a lot through your website. I don’t know how much you know, but you actually empower people by admitting these things out loud, and then also itemizing how you dealt with it.

Because the other thing is, it sounds great… You deleted it, and then you picked what had energy for you, and thus would have energy for your audience.


A few voices from 2020

There are so many people who talk about the downside of 2020. And yes, it was so stressful. My kids are all in school today, but they will be home tomorrow, or Wednesday, because it’s the hybrid for the second half of the week right now. They’re still virtual.

But that was probably my most stressful part of 2020, just having my kids home with me all the time. I love them, but there’s only so much that I can handle and it’s about an hour. I hate to say that, but I’m just being honest here.

And when it came to recording podcasts, I realized that I had fallen back into a habit, or I was maintaining the habit of saying Yes too far, too much.

For example, I signed up to be a Girl Scout leader because I wanted to be able to set the day of the week that the meetings are on.


I feel bad if my co-leader is listening because I never admitted that to her. I probably should, but I really had no passion. I am not the one who’s on Pinterest looking for Girl Scout troop ideas. She is! She has every meeting planned, but I had fallen into that yes-yes-yes.

And I realize, I’m very thankful for 2020 in the way that it worked out, because it made me start to realize things like that, that I need to say Yes to me more.

Yes, that’s been my experience of 2020. With all due respect to people who suffered tremendously, but I had, I would call them… “Vague desires”, for a change.

Literally, my office setting, I was sitting too much too sedentary just in general, but I am a dancer mover type of person. And COVID just shifted so many things for me and opened up so many opportunities, like being able to put out my book and really be present for it.

So, I agree with you, and I’m never going to go back to many things because I don’t want to. And I learned, it gave me the momentum to do what I had been subtly yearning for it. And there it is! Now, I’m based basically out of my home office virtually, and things will change again. That’s okay, they’re never going back the same way, and I’m happy about that.

There were so many things that I now can joyously claim that I wouldn’t have even allowed myself permission to explore the possibility of doing…

Small voice developments are important

What is one 2020 development that you are embarrassed to admit that you appreciate? And I can share mine so that you understand the type…

Please do, yes.

A local Mexican restaurant now has takeout margaritas. I only did it once, okay? They give it to you in a foam cup and then you can take it to go.

I’m also in Ohio, where people have tailgating sessions outside of high school football games. So, I took my Margarita into the soccer game.

Hahaha! I love that. Ask me the question again because I loved how you phrased it. I think I have two answers.

Well, I just can’t believe that I just publicly admitted that I got a margarita in a styrofoam cup to go, and took it into a soccer game…

So, what is one 2020 development that you would be embarrassed to admit that you appreciate?

The one that comes up which is nothing compared to yours.

Is that, because I’m in New York City and there’s a lot of gourmet salad places. Many have closed, but I go and get this very expensive salad which is very special, that I would never have allowed myself to buy it so many times. But I give myself the not-bad rationalization: I’m helping the business.

So, I’m embarrassed to admit, I wouldn’t have spent this year as much on this particular salad. But because it was 2020, I was actually helping the business.

You see? That’s a different self, you can hear me say it. So then, I basically splurged on this almost 100% more than I might have otherwise.

Okay, on your behalf, having lived outside of New York City, and having worked in Midtown, I remember salad bars.

While a lot of people, especially those in my area where I live right now, would think of a salad bar as a counter in the supermarket or at a restaurant where you can just take your plate up and get your stuff. But the salad bars, as I remember them from NYC, are nothing similar to that. They make salad spectacular, even for people who don’t like greens.

Correct. Thank you for that, I never quite thought of it. That’s right!

You might have on this broad selection. Literally jewels of gourmet food and stuff you’d never make in home. So that’s the other thing. Like, I can’t make it at home because it’s smoked trout and goat cheese, and things like that. So yes, you are exactly right. Thanks for bringing that up.

And also, because New York has so many cultures, often, with this particular place I’m talking about, there’s Moroccan, and French, and American… So, there’s housemaid harissa that comes from a family, the grandmother used to make when they lived in Morocco, so the flavors are amazing.

New York still has spices where people go, and maybe they’re first generation here. So, if from India, you can go to a few sections where it’s saffron, literally from India, without the middleman, or paprika. Paprika, which I never used to think of as having that much flavor is so aromatic.

So, you’re right. Thank you for helping me rationalize self. That is what I’m talking about.

If I were in New York, sign me up, I would be right there at the world class salad bars with you.

Oh, good. And then, I certainly join you for a drink, so don’t think I wouldn’t have that margarita. Hahaha.

I do just want to put this out there. I wasn’t drinking and driving: The straw did not go into the cup until I got to the soccer game, and I was sober on my way home. Or else, I would have called my husband and said, “Come and get me.”

Perfect, because you have teenagers to model for.


That’s a good thing to clarify.

By the way, I have an app on my phone now, we have USA car insurance, and they give us a discount. They monitor how much we’re using our devices while we’re driving. And it’s made me so much aware.

I’m actually going to make my kids get it on their phones when they start driving our cars, because it tracks how much we’re using our devices.

So, I am purposely not using my devices while driving because I don’t want to pay more in car insurance.

That is brilliant. And talk about a reinforcement that’s not draconian, but really effective.

Because other drivers don’t want any other drivers to be texting either. Everybody is in danger if only one person is texting, think about how many other people are in danger…

Oh, absolutely.

I love that!

Yeah. My husband and I aren’t necessarily afraid of our driving. But it’s the kids out there who are texting and driving that we are afraid of.

It’s terrifying. I love that. That’s great.

Because, again, we keep going back to money. But that’s a perfect place where you put in natural consequences. You do it, you pay more, often people change their behavior.


Final words and contact

Bridgit, this has been amazing. And listeners, I want to remind you to go to the show notes, there you will find all the ways to connect to both Bridgit and myself. If this is the first time that you’re listening, make sure to connect with us on Clubhouse.

Whether you’re listening on the day that this episode goes live or in the future, we will be sharing a conversation in a room there shortly after this episode goes live. I know that you’ll be able to find us there in the future.

But Bridgit, where else can people find and connect with you online?

You can google Final 8th all over social media, and I have Final8th.com website, as well as my name.

And also, for you personally Kim and any listeners, if you’d like, every third Thursday at 8:00 PM Eastern, my colleague Erik and I host a free Zoom Voice Dialogue Webinar, where we do a couple of basic Voice Dialogue technique sessions.

So, anyone who wants, just contact me for the Zoom link, you can email me, and you’ll watch how it works. Especially, if you get the book and you’re doing it through the book, you can say, “Well, how exactly does that work?”

Every third Thursday comes, and it’s a wonderful experience. People always learn a lot, and it’s live. So, again, kind of like our talk today, we don’t rehearse or anything. Someone gets in the hot seat and talks to oneself, and then the other self. We all do our voice dialogue technique and it’s amazing.

So, third Thursdays at 8:00, you can always come by every month, and I look forward to seeing people.

Amazing. I just want to put out there that Final 8th is with the number 8th. So, unless you have both URLs, which would be a good idea, by the way…

Oh, you’re so good! Now, you gave me a to-do, but I will check.

Yeah, go do that today so somebody doesn’t buy it after they listen to the podcast episode.

Yeah! Oh, my gosh.

Listeners, thank you so much for being here. I’ve totally appreciated that you are here to listen and to help spread the message that Bridgit and I have been sharing today.

Please make sure to go over to your preferred listening platform. Leave a comment and a review for the podcast, and make sure to go again to the show notes page and let us know what you especially loved about the episode.

Bridgit, thank you so much for being here. Do you have a parting piece of advice or a golden nugget that you can leave with our listeners?

I think I’m going to repeat the line that really motivates me especially when I start to drive a little in energy, which is:

Live, as if at any moment, you could get the absurd good news.

Important links and resources

  1. Kim’s Clubhouse.
  2. Bridgit Clubhouse.
  3. The Final 8th Facebook.