PP 701: The difference between Listening and Hearing with Marc Stern

“You are a very valuable component of friendship and love when you FULLY listen to hear what other people are saying. That is the way to formulate long-term relationships and find the love that you’re missing.” -Marc Stern

This month’s theme is about emotional and spiritual wellness! In connection to that, Marc Stern of Need2BHeard sits as our guest today. This conversation revolves around the art of mindful listening. Kim and Marc talk about what makes talking about your feelings so hard and what listening to hear involves. Marc also shares what the most important part of being a professional listener is and how to create a safe forum for people to feel heard. Being left alone to our pain and fears is the loneliest place to be. Tune in and find out how you can fill that void for yourself and for others!


  • 01:39 Why Talking About Your Feelings Is Hard (SO Hard!)
  • 09:58 Filling the Void
  • 17:25 How to Listen
  • 27:46 Creating A Safe Forum
  • 35:20 Stay Calm
  • 39:42 Insert Gratitude
  • 45:19 How to Make People Feel Heard


What makes listening different from hearing? Listen as @thekimsutton and @MarcSternGFI reveal the secret to mindful listening and lasting relationships! #positiveproductivity#podcast #mindfullistening #hearing #lastingrelationships #gratitude #givingClick To Tweet



The Prosperous Coach: Increase Income and Impact for You and Your Clients by Steve Chandler and Rich Litvin 


Positive Productivity Podcast Episode 694: Have You Found the  “Unmute”  Button Yet with Marie White


Remote Learning and Hoe Families Can Cope During COVID


Inspirational Quotes:

17:37 “The key to [avoid interjecting] is understanding that you will not give your opinion until it’s either asked for or very appropriate.” -Marc Stern

21:07 “In order to open yourself up to new ideas, you have to be able to fully hear what someone is saying.” -Marc Stern 

24:54 “We’re so much more powerful when grounded in silence, knowing that what we don’t say can be as powerful as what we do say.” -Kim Sutton

31:46 “Your first response is not always the best response. To be able to engage your brain before putting your mouth in gear is a skill, and not everyone has that.” -Marc Stern

33:22 “We can’t expect ourselves to get along with everybody all the time. They have bad days, we have bad days, we need to give ourselves grace and forgiveness.” -Kim Sutton

38:08 “It doesn’t matter how many people you have around you. Loneliness is a state of heart and a state of mind.” -Marc Stern 

43:20 “What makes awesome entrepreneurs awesome is their willingness to give without expecting to receive something right away.” -Kim Sutton

47:12 “The ability to multitask is important. But you need to be able to stop, focus, and listen if you really want to engage.” -Marc Stern

48:05 “You are a very valuable component of friendship and love when you FULLY listen to hear what other people are saying. That is the way to formulate long-term relationships and find the love that you’re missing.” -Marc Stern

48:28 “Allow yourself the freedom of silence.” -Marc Stern

About Marc Stern:

Marc has many satisfied listening clients and lifelong relationships as a trusted friend. His ability to be an empathic listener transcends time or distance. He is an open-minded, compassionate, and intelligent person who has a deep respect for ALL people, regardless of gender, politics, or religion. Marc specializes in creative personalities, understands life challenges, works across age groups, and loves being an empathetic and kind presence for those in need. You will find your discussions with Marc to be private, easy, fulfilling, fun, and insightful. 

Connect with Need2BHeard:

My friends, I am so thrilled about today’s episode. You know that this year I am reformatting the podcast. And most months, we’re only going to have one guest episode a month, and it’s in accordance with the theme of the month. If you’re listening in the future, it is April of 2021 and this month’s theme is Emotional and Spiritual Wellness.

There are some months though, that I have friends who I know will be able to provide so much value, and today’s episode is with my friend Marc Stern. He was The Guest on Episode 114 which was way back in September 2017.

I can’t believe that that was almost four years ago Marc. We were chatting just before the episode and we’ve known each other for nearly… I just lost count, six years. We’ve never met in person, we’ve only done Skype, Zoom and phone calls with each other. I did marketing automation for you in your first business, but you’ve shifted, and that’s where today comes in.

Listening and hearing: Need2Bheard

Marc, I’d love for you to reintroduce yourself, share what you’re doing now, and then we’ll jump right in.

Thank you, Kim, so much for having me. My name is Marc Stern. I run a business called Need2Bheard.com.

We believe that there is an epidemic of loneliness going on in this country, and in this world. In addition to, of course, the pandemic that’s going on, which has driven a lot of people to feel very isolated and alone. So, we have provided us a listening service, with professional listeners; which is not medical therapy, but yet it is very therapeutic.

We offer empathy, caring and a true connection, and light life coaching to those who wish to connect with us.

Before we jump into today’s episode, Marc and I were catching up on some of the past. And as I said, we had started working together in 2015, and I’m sure I had shared with Marc after the fact.

I just want to give a trigger warning to anybody that some of the content in this episode may be a little bit sensitive. So, just be forewarned: Everything in this episode is intended to help and inspire you, and perhaps, provide you a direction to go in if you’re facing any of the challenges that we talked about here.

What is the difference between listening and hearing?

In 2016, I was so sleep deprived in my business that I became suicidal. And as I mentioned, Marc and I were already working together, but I didn’t feel like I had anybody to talk about it. And that was entirely not true. My husband is amazing.

But for those of you who are perhaps not in a relationship or in a relationship, where the person isn’t necessarily the most supportive person, I’ve been there too and I understand how it feels. I didn’t want to put any of the weight of how I was feeling on my husband, so I didn’t say anything to anybody. And then I got to the lowest of lows, and thankfully, I did not take any actions… Or else I wouldn’t be here to talk to you today.

I want you to know that there’s always somebody to talk to you. If you’re feeling that low, I’m here, and Marc now has the service.

Marc, I want to know, considering it’s 2021 right now, we’ve been going through this worldwide pandemic for almost a year now. When did this idea start coming to you? Was it pre-pandemic or in the midst of a pandemic? I’m curious.

I will address that of course, but what I want to say is that… It is very difficult and not always possible to talk to a loved one, a clergy person or one of your friends about some things that are very difficult to work out. They don’t always understand the difference between hearing and listening.

I do fully understand and love the fact that you’re open about where you were, but the truth is it’s alright to speak to someone outside of your social circle about deep things. Provided that you get the understanding and empathy that you really need.

I want you to know, as your friend, I would have been happy to talk to you any time about everything that was going on for you.

Talking about our feelings is hard, SO HARD!

I don’t know that I’ve ever shared why I didn’t talk to my husband… Because I know he would have been there. The reason why I didn’t talk to my husband Dave was twofold: I didn’t want him to feel like he was in any way to blame for how I was feeling, because he certainly was not.

But a bigger reason was because in 2008 while trying to unsuccessfully build my first business, I had been in the same situation, I was so sleep deprived that I was suicidal in 2008. You would have thought that I would have learned my lesson, but I really didn’t until 2016, when it happened again.

So, I told to my first husband and the first thing he said was:

“You need to be committed. If you ever want to see your kids again, I’m taking you to the hospital right now.”

And I was so afraid. Even though I knew I had no reason to feel like my husband Dave would do that to me, I was so afraid that it would happen again… So, I kept quiet.

And for all the family members and significant others out there, I want to encourage you to be supportive and not threatening like that, when your loved one comes to you. Because that wasn’t the beginning of the end, but it was definitely a big marker in the end of our relationship.

Right. And you felt that that was a threat.

But do you feel that perhaps he was coming from a place of love where he was actually trying to protect you?

Perhaps. However, he contacted a divorce attorney while I was in the mental hospital.

Ah! So, there’s a difference… Hahaha.

Yeah, hahaha.

Listening without Hearing

I’m not saying that there aren’t drugs for people… I understand that that’s not one of your services. You’re not prescribing, right?


What happened was, and I think it’s really important to share this: When I went in, they took blood, and they realized that my thyroid was way out of whack. They never asked me about sleep, and they attributed everything… Well, a small portion to my thyroid, which thyroid dysfunctions can do crazy things, but they just attributed it to anxiety and depression. Between listening and hearing, there wasn’t much hearing.

So, when I left the hospital a week later, I was given three mega doses of serious medications. And I am a creative, Marc, you know I’m a creative, you know anytime we can get on the line and I can brainstorm a gazillion ideas of how to work through whatever you’re working on.

Yeah, absolutely.

One of the things that attracted me to you when we first met a thousand years ago was your willingness to brainstorm. And your capacity to think outside the box, which helped me launch my prior business.

It’s also one of the reasons why I reached out to you again, aside from the fact that I missed hanging out with you. I needed your cognitive feedback, I needed someone who could really understand an idea out of the box and try to move it forward.

Thank you. Thank you.

I know you’re a creative person too. I mean, you’re a guitar player, you see music probably in your head along with a whole bunch of other stuff.

What had happened to me on these drugs was that I looked at white paper, and I saw white. I don’t know if the people who don’t think the same way as I do will necessarily understand this, but there was nothing more unsettling than looking at white paper and seeing white.

Does it make any sense?

It’s frightening because as a creative person, you do have the capacity to make something from nothing. And when you lose that capacity, that’s like losing a part of yourself that’s so important to your existence.

Absolutely! You know, I had a scrapbooking business at that time. I didn’t even scrapbook, but I could see ideas all the time.

Marc, I don’t know how to play the guitar, alright? But I can’t imagine being as professional and amazing as you are picking up the guitar and not feeling. Look, I know that there’s days that you may not feel like feeling, but there’s music for every mood, right? So, just picking up a guitar and not feeling or not hearing music, that’s how I would think it would be.

It is, exactly. The correlation is brilliant.

Filling the Void

But two things. First of all, I could totally teach you how to play the guitar, hehehe!

I want to learn. Actually… Let’s talk about that some other time. But that’s something I wanted to learn for years, so thank you.

Second, and as a creative person, when I pick up the guitar no matter what my mood is, something will come out that reflects that mood.

One of the reasons, getting back to your original question about, when we concepted and started to implement, Need2Bheard… It was during a downtime in the pandemic of over the summer last year. There was an emotional void, such as yours, and I started to come up with a plan to give people an outlet to really be heard, and really allow themselves to feel like someone is there for them.

Also, not to be in the pipeline of psychotherapy, where you have to deal with insurance and you have to be diagnosed. Sometimes, you just need an ear to talk to.

Sometimes you just need some listening and hearing. So, when my partner Tara and I came up with the idea, we wanted to put it in a framework of caring. A framework of creative process where it’s a give and take between us and our clients.

And, equating that to the guitar and the creative process of music is brilliant, because that’s really what it is! It’s one human interacting with another.

How did this conversation come about with you and Tara?

Well, the irony is when I came up with the idea, I started googling to see if anyone else had this idea and the only person that came up was Tara.

I had met her about 15 years ago at a networking event. And she had a listening business.

No way!

She and I connected and we talked about it. And she really wasn’t pursuing it, but we came up with the framework of pursuing it… Well, into the future.

Hearing, as a Carreer

Okay. I don’t want to put salt on any possible wounds, but I want to know how your purpose and your passion fit in with what Need2Bheard versus the old business?

Was there purpose and passion in the old business at any point, and how do you feel like it fits in here?

I think that the old business was me looking as an entrepreneur for something to do, where I could help people and make money. So, the correlation here is that I still want to do the same thing. But now, I’m looking to help people as individuals and not what the other business was based on. This is all about listening and hearing.

I can totally relate, but I would have to say that with my previous business model, making money was always at the beginning. Haha.

And yes, I was helping people, but it was all about money, money, money. And that’s hard for me to admit, but…

Well, it’s true.

Yeah. And I would have to say that in my pursuit of money, I was lost in my business.

You and I connected, but we had so many phone calls and we could just hop on a Skype and chat. And thank you for being so awesome, because I felt so comfortable talking to you at any point. There were so many times that we just joked, but it was always:

Rush, rush, rush, money, money, money!

Get another client, even if I’m overwhelmed…

And I didn’t have confidence. I knew I was good at what I did, but I didn’t see that I could charge more than I was.

Listeners, this is going from “Listening” to “Entrepreneurship”, so just hear me out for a quick second and then we’ll get back to listening: The lack of confidence and a lack of knowing my value and my worth really contributed to where I wound up, and feeling so low. Because I was overworking myself due to lack of confidence.

I didn’t realize there were simple shifts that could be made. And sometimes, you just need to talk that out with somebody.

The right person it’s out there!

Sometimes you have to talk to a lot of people before you find that right person. Because so many times, I was told, “Well, you could do this so you should start offering this.”, “You could do that, so you should start offering that.”

No. What really started to strike a chord was, “Kim, you’re worth more than this. And I don’t mean just financially, but as a person, you are worth more than this.”

Absolutely. That’s an incredible point because it’s very difficult, especially as an entrepreneur, for a person to say:

“You know what? This is what I’m worth. You either choose to pay it or you will find someone else.”

There is a fine line, because the Need2Bheard was actually conceptualized as to give back. But we are in a position where we’re not independently wealthy, and we do need to charge for our services.

Although we are free, and will be completely free, for essential health care workers throughout the course of the pandemic… There is a fine line where you realize your worth, your time is money. And you do need to find a way to feel adequately compensated for what you believe you’re worth.

Listening and hearing… That is so important to your self-image and the future of your business.

I know that we didn’t get on this call to have a brainstorming session, but can I ask… Have you ever considered becoming a nonprofit, like a 501, whatever, A, B, C, D, E, F, G? I’m not up on all that lingo.


I’m just asking, because I know there’s so many people who could really use the services, but might just not be able to pay for it. Especially right now, and I wouldn’t expect it to change too quickly in the future. But when there’s all types of people out there who would be willing to donate to the cause and fund other people’s listening, right?

I’m just curious if you’ve thought about it.

We approached it gingerly, and we haven’t gone there yet. But that’s not to say that we’re open to all ideas, because we are.

Love it.

Listening and hearing are different because…

So, a big part of listening and hearing that I found is that the person who’s listening needs to really, truly, be open to listening and not interjecting. Do you find that with people who call in?

Actually, I want you to cover how the whole process works.

And know listeners, K-N-O-W, this is not a sponsored episode by Need2Bheard.

I’m just curious, how does the process work? Do they call in? Do they make an appointment? How have you trained yourself to listen? Because I know, as a podcaster, sometimes I get so wrapped up in wanting to interject. I so often just keep myself muted to make sure I don’t interrupt.

How do you control all that? How do people come in to Need2Bheard?

Well, there is definitely a training involved with becoming a listener, because you have to allow a person to go through their thought process without interjecting. The key to that is understanding that you will not give your opinion until it’s either asked for or very appropriate.

The process of making an appointment with a Need2Bheard listener is very simple. You go to our website, and you click on our BOOK NOW button. It’ll allow you to choose which listener you want.

You can also choose whether it’s audio, either by telephone, or by audio Zoom, or by video. Then you choose the time that works for you, and you connect with the listener.

How to Listen, how to Hear

See Kim, there is a major difference between hearing and listening.

I can hear sounds around me; I can hear the snowplows running by my window. But when you’re interacting with another human, the art of listening is not to be taken lightly, to give people the forum necessary to run through their thought machinations.

And, I digress for one second… With conventional therapy, you are likely diagnosed. But you feel that the majority of progress you make in those sessions is listening to yourself talk and working out problems, maybe without a word from your therapist.

To give people that forum, and give them the kindness, empathy and love that they need without putting them into the “system” is a valuable resource. So, to practice mindful listening, the best thing you can do is to mute yourself while the other person is talking.

And, I digress again, if you’re talking to a friend, sometimes there are taboos in the conversation. There are moments where you just know where it’s appropriate for you to respond because that’s what’s expected of you. But if you’re in a position where you’re communicating with a professional listener, the forum is completely yours.

You have the opportunity to be completely legitimately heard. Where if you want someone’s opinion, they’re happy to give it to you. But the time is 100% yours.

Listening as a coach, and a Selfish Listener

I’m reading a book right now called The Prosperous Coach. And by the way, I don’t consider myself a coach because I talk too much. In the best way, I want to give ideas. I just need to say that I would not make a great listener, and I think it’s powerful to be able to own up to that.

Yes, I can listen. But when I hear a challenge that I feel like I know how I could fix it, I want to just spit out what I’m thinking and tell them to go. “Go do it, then come back.” Haha!

So, I don’t consider myself a coach, because I’m also not going to ask questions for the next two years, and wait for the answer to come up. And that definitely goes right along the coaching line, I wouldn’t have patience.

That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t care, but I wouldn’t have patience to wait while they’re talking because I always want to interject.

I think that you were excellent at listening and hearing. Because in order to open yourself up to new ideas, you have to be able to fully hear what someone is saying.

So, I respectfully disagree with you.

I hear you. But I also want to say that my listening is selfish a lot of the time.


Because I listen for what I want to hear. Haha.

In what way?

When I’m looking for new ideas, or when I’m looking for solutions to my problems, or clients’ problems, I have the specific things that I’m listening for… Well, okay. Maybe you just prove the point. If I were a listener, that I would be listening for those points.

But I want to get back to the book that I’m reading, The Prosperous Coach.

They bring up that… Let’s just say you’re hopping on a call with a prospect, and their suggestion is having it be a two-hour call and give them the best coaching experience that they’ve ever experienced in their life.

So, just like you and I were talking about, when I’m hopping on with a prospect, I give them the full taste of my brainstorming and my strategy. I’m not going to hold back, it’s not going to be just telling about the program, it’s going to be to show them ME in action.

What The Prosperous Coach says is, “Ask the question: Is it okay if I coach you right now?” And I love how you are leaving the table open for them to listen. So, if they want to be coached, if they want feedback… Then it’s up to them to lay it out for you: “Okay, do you have feedback?”


He’s listening to me but, is he Hearing me?

That’s been a struggle, I gotta say, with me and my husband… Have you seen Beetlejuice?

Of course.

Okay, thank you. I was sure that your answer would be yes.

At the very end, when they’re going through the final scenes and Beetlejuice slaps the zipper on one of their mouths, and then slaps the metal plate on another mouth so that they won’t say “Beetlejuice”. There have been times when I’ve wished in my marriage that I was Beetlejuice.

And this is to my husband, Dave, who I absolutely love. Like I could slap the metal plate on his mouth so he’d just shut up and listen to me.

Or just have a remote control with a mute, hehe.

Yeah. And turn off the part of the brain where he’s thinking about what he’s gonna say next, so I know he’s actually listening to me. And that’s probably been something that’s come out of our mouths over and over again.

Again, I love him dearly. But… I know he’s listening to me, but is he hearing me? Is he hearing the words that I’m saying and actually processing them in his head?

Right. And remember, this has nothing to do with love. You can love someone you’re involved with without hesitation, but there is a skill to hearing and listening, and the differentiation between the two.

Absolutely, your analogy is 100% correct. As always.

Thank you.

The Heart of Listening

I was reading A Year Of Miracles just before we hopped on. I’m going through a couple days at a time, gotta say. Because it’s a year of miracles, but I usually read two days at a time. And it’s so funny that Day 80 was what I was reading, and it’s about On the Holiness of a Quiet Moment.

I just want to read you a section of what I read, that’s so timely… If I hadn’t been reading two days at a time, I wouldn’t have been on this day today. Isn’t that so awesome?



It says, “Too often, we feel invisible unless we’re making the cool comment, doing this or doing that. But we’re so much more powerful when grounded in silence, taking a deep breath, knowing that what we don’t say can be as powerful as what we do say; thinking deeply about something before making a response.

Such actions leave room for the spirit to flow, to harmonize our circumstances and move them in a more positive direction.”

There’s deep power and meaning in those words. And that IS the heart of listening.

Need2Bheard: Creating a safe forum for all of us

So, how did you become a professional listener?

Well, I have always had the capacity to do that. Some people are just in tune with other human beings and I’ve always found myself in the position where people rely on me to be their confidant, to be their advisor.

You know? It wasn’t just a question of monetizing it. I wanted to give back.

Especially with all the pain, loneliness, anguish and isolation that the pandemic brought us.

So, the way that I became a professional listener was simply to say, “You know what? This is something I can do to give back to humanity. It’s something that means a lot to me and I have the skill to do it.”

I mean, I wish I could play first base for the New York Mets, but I don’t have the skill to do that. Hahaha!

The art of making people feel safe

I have a hard question for you.


Not a hard question, but I’m asking because I’m your friend… I see on your website right now is you and Tara, but with the state of our country, and the world even, have you found any resistance because people may want to speak with someone in their own race? And do you see yourself expanding outside?

We have not yet come across that particular race issue, which we fully intend on doing because we are, at our heart, going to be a multicultural organization. We want to expand around the world with all races, nationalities, religions, whatever it is. Need2BHeard just wants people to feel safe.

That’s the most important part of being a professional listener: Giving someone the forum where they are safe, private, confidential environment, where they feel nurtured and they feel fully heard.

So yes, Kim, we are absolutely aware of the limitations of our current staffing, but we will be taking steps in the near future to include others.

Hearing vs Listening vs Social Media

I don’t say that harshly, because it’s just been really alarming for me. There was just an episode that was released with Marie White, somewhat similar to this Listening and Hearing.

And I just want to say, Marc and I are from different religious backgrounds. No matter, I love Marc. We’ve been with each other for six years. We may have voted differently in the last election. I don’t know. I didn’t bring it up because it doesn’t matter to me.

It doesn’t matter.

I still love Marc.

I have great friends who are not the same race as me, I have great friends who don’t have the same sexual preferences as me. It doesn’t matter at all to me, I love all as long as you’re respectful.

Right. But why do you think those people are your friends?

Because they respect me for who I am.

Yes, and they feel safe with you.

Yeah. But it’s just been sad to see, Marie and I were talking about how we haven’t felt completely safe putting our thoughts out on social media. Even sometimes in conversations.

I mean, my family has different views than I do, and there hasn’t been that open space sometimes to share how we’re feeling because of Cancel Culture…

So, I think it’s amazing that you’re giving this platform and this ability for people to get on and share what their thoughts are without having the feeling of being judged.

Can I interject?

Yes, please.

As a professional listener, I’m going to interrupt you. Hahaha.

Social media is one thing, because you are then putting your thoughts out there to whoever decides to read your posts. It’s the furthest thing from private, and it will never disappear.

So, you don’t really have the opportunity to delve into your deepest thoughts in a public forum.


Stay calm

I do wish that people would listen more to the posts they read on social media. Just like you and I are talking about here, and that passage I just read from the book! If they read, if more people read, paused, and then perhaps commented back with a thoughtful response, rather than the first thing that pops in their mind, which could very often be hurtful… Then maybe there would be more space for public listening.

Definitely, definitely. And that is the ultimate goal of Need2Bheard, to be able to provide a forum where you can feel that way, you can feel safe, you can feel heard.

But yet, the art of listening is such that your first response is not always the best response. So, to be able to take that step back and think about what you’re going to say. To engage your brain before putting your mouth in gear. That’s a skill, and not everyone has that.

Back in 2015 before you and I met, probably, I remember posting in a large group, I was on Facebook and I was trying to share. I think it was probably around Valentine’s Day and people were in a little place of misery, because they hadn’t found that special someone…

I remember being in that place. Even when I was married to my first husband, the romance wasn’t there, the respect wasn’t there so I would often feel down on Valentine’s Day. And I was trying to share where I’d come from, where I was now and how there’s hope.

And if this is your first episode listening, to you, I want you to know that there is hope. I mean, I came out of an emotionally abusive relationship, which was abusive to me and my boys. And then I met my husband completely by accident on Craigslist. I was looking for furniture and saw a little link that said, Men Looking For Women. Went in there to laugh at jerks, and found my husband instead. It’s entirely possible.

We don’t get along 24/7, but he is my soulmate, I know it. And we can’t expect ourselves to get along with everybody all the time. They have bad days, we have bad days, we need to give ourself grace and forgiveness. I had posted a little bit of the story of what had happened with my ex.

Just to give context, somebody came in immediately and responded, “Well, isn’t that convenient? Always blaming the ex-husband. Because you were perfect.” I was like, “Wait a second. If you had just taken a moment to read and listen, then you would have seen that wasn’t what I was trying to do. I was trying to share a story of hope.”


Interrupting Cow

People are trying to interject their own opinions and their own foibles into what they read. They’re looking at it only from their perspective.

Absolutely. I can’t say I don’t ever get in that trap. But in the last six years, I’ve done so much work on myself that I’ve learned how to stop and listen, it’s what I’m trying to say.

Even on the podcast, I was interrupting. I know I’ve interrupted here today, but my interrupting back in the early days were so much more than they are now.

I was just usually thinking about what I was going to say next, rather than even listening here on the podcast. And it’s embarrassing to admit that, but I was a horrible listener at the beginning.

Interrupting cow jokes.

Oh, yeah. For those of you who don’t know the joke, do you wanna do it?


Who’s there?

Interrupting cow.

Interrupting cow w…?


Exactly, exactly. Hahaha!

A session of Hearing, with Marc

If you could go back and tell yourself anything, give yourself of 20, 25 years ago hope, what would you tell yourself?

That’s a great question. The answer is probably not only one thing, but I would believe…

“Stay calm. There is love, there is hope, you’re going to be okay.”

That and:

“Don’t forget to nap a lot.”

Hahaha! Which is so funny, because I think the name of the first episode was something about, “He hates Mondays and likes naps.”


Yeah. I love Monday. Have you changed that perspective on Mondays at all, in the last five years?

Well, these days, it’s not so much that I don’t like Mondays, it’s just that I am, in no way, shape or form, a morning person. Now, I actually look forward to Mondays because Need2Bheard is such a great challenge, and such a great emotional experience for me. I don’t mind Mondays at all anymore.

Monday mornings, I need my coffee. But outside of that, I’m good.

I hear that. I remember that first conversation, and I think I professed my love for Mondays.

My love for Mondays at that point was because all my kids were out of the house. I think, by 2017, they were either in daycare all in school.

Now, I still love Mondays. However, it’s been a bit challenging now.

Loneliness it’s everywhere

It’s been really interesting this past year looking at different perspectives because I never thought I’ve heard people say that they’ve been lonely. You and I have already talked about it, that “I’m lonely” this past year. They can’t leave their house, and everything’s closed…

I mean, my mom lives by herself, and it never occurred to me that she could be lonely. Because here I am with five kids and a husband in the house, and it’s hard to get quiet. I mean, I can’t go into the bathroom and shut the door without somebody knocking on the door and saying, “Mom, mom.”

It never occurred to me that I could still be lonely, and that I was lonely. Because all of a sudden, the events that I was going to and years prior, those are gone.

I mean, I’m an introvert, but I still love going to events. Am I exhausted at the end of the day? Yes. But there was that adult interaction, and I didn’t realize how much I missed it until an opportunity came up to get more of the interaction.

My husband and I can talk all day long, but we’re different people with different interests. And I don’t talk about my business to my husband because he doesn’t get half of what I’m saying, and I don’t get half of what he’s saying because he’s a video game designer and I don’t get it.

Right. And it is very possible to be lonely in a crowd. It doesn’t matter how many people you have around you. Loneliness is a state of heart and a state of mind.


Snowplows and broken shovels

And I should say that, because I know that you are at home with the kids, there is a new blog on our website written by a very well-respected public-school teacher about dealing with the stresses of COVID and the virtual learning environment.

There’s so many aspects to it. It never occurred to me. At the beginning, I was excited by virtual learning.

I am not a homeschooling mom, that’s not what I was built for. But I was excited because I didn’t have to get up early to take them to school. But then comes the challenge of making sure that they’re doing everything that they need to everyday, while still trying to fit in what I need to do…

Listeners, I just got to put this in there: Yesterday, I got our van stuck in the amount of snow, while trying to back over the snow that the snowplow had put into our driveway. I gotta say, it’s been hard for me on the last day.

I’m just putting it out there because all of a sudden, we can’t go anywhere. Both of our vans are plowed in, and I didn’t know until we got this massive snow plow that our shovel had broken.


So, we’re here until… The shovel that we ordered from Amazon comes? Hahaha.

Well… The snow will melt by June, you’ll be fine! Hahaha.

By June! Hahaha.

Insert gratitude

Kim: With that said, I feel so grateful because we’re in a warm place.

I was given a major perspective this morning when I was looking out the window and I was thinking about… Even just a year before we met, my husband didn’t feel like he had anybody to talk to.

He was a disabled US Air Force Vet who was in a really bad relationship, where there were drugs involved. So, he had to leave, he knew he had to leave for his safety, mentally and physically. So, given no other options, because he didn’t have money to get his own place, in the middle of winter, in Fargo, North Dakota, he lived in his car.

He had a sleeping bag, more blankets, long-jhons, and he would sleep in his car every night. But he didn’t feel like he had anybody that he could talk to.

And just down the street from me, I mean, yesterday, it was -4 degrees here in Ohio. Just down the street from me is a gentleman who has… Okay, I don’t know the politically correct way of saying this, so correct me if I say it wrong, Marc. He’s mentally disabled, he’s got challenges. He’s living in his van here in our neighborhood, which is an awesome neighborhood.

The authorities check on him every once in a while, but they can’t do anything about it because he’s not breaking any laws. He moves his van every three days, so he doesn’t get a ticket.

But here I am in my house with heat, with enough food to get us through the next few days.

So, do you feel guilty about that?

I don’t feel guilty. And this could come out really wrong, but I don’t mean it to… I feel gratitude that I have what I have. It gives me a new perspective about complaining.

When I complain about the fact that my kids are driving me crazy, while I know that throughout the country, throughout the world, there are people facing challenges far more than what I could ever experience in a day right now.

Even if our power went out, I could go into my bed and cover myself up with blankets while there are people around the world, in our own country, who don’t have blankets.

I mean, Texas just got dumped with snow. There are homeless people in Texas who haven’t necessarily had to have blankets. I don’t mean to be naïve, yes, they’ve had blankets. But snow is nothing that they’ve had to encounter before, recently.

And what you’re bringing up is a very important point about gratitude. That it’s okay to understand and feel what you have, that others may not have. And the desire to want to help others is very much based on being able to have that feeling of gratitude for what you have.

That really is one of the main driving factors behind the concept of Need2Bheard, that I’ve been very lucky in my life to be able to have wonderful friends and people who love me. So, the knowledge that there are so many people out there who are struggling without that, it is my joy to be able to give back.

It means so much to me, it’s so important.

I gotta of say, to follow up on that, I think that’s what makes Awesome Entrepreneurs, Awesome, is their willingness to give without expecting to receive something right away.


The fact that you have a blog where you’re giving out information…

How to be Heard

I’ve worked with enough entrepreneurs and businesses, and I’m not including the previous business that I worked for with you in this, but I’ve worked with enough who felt like the only time that they would send an email out to their people is if they were selling something.

It was always get, get, get.

Right. It’s about giving.

I’m going to be the numbers person here, but I’ll tell you that did not resonate with their people. Their people wanted to be heard… That people wanted to be asked questions. I mean, a simple email, “How are you doing today? Can I support you on anything? And no, I’m not asking for money.” How far would that go with the email list when they knew that at the bottom of the email there’s not an invite to join the latest program that they’re offering?

So, this client’s open rate was 3%. I was just having a conversation yesterday, I would have loved that size email list, a hundred thousand people. But not with a 3% open rate that didn’t feel at all connected to me, without anyone listening and hearing, and didn’t know that they could respond to any of the emails that I sent out and actually be heard. Be heard!

How to make people feel heard

I guess stemming from Marc’s business model, even if you’re not a professional listener, even if you’re not a coach, how can you let your people, your community, your email list, your customers know that they’re heard and respected, and you care about them today?

Well, you really hit on it. The way to do that is to give without wanting to get back.

And that’s powerful because we live in a society that is so self-centered. To be able to offer your services, yourself, your heart, to other people and not ask them to give you money for it. Yeah, that’s incredibly powerful.

I have to admit, it’s been a little bit hard not to mute out all the ideas that are going in my head right now. That’s when I start fumbling over my words, the bloopers and the typos that come out of my mouth, come when awesome conversations like this just start filling my brain with, “Oh, oh, oh, I got to work on that! I have to do it!”

Jot down ideas as you go along.

Yeah, but then I’m not listening.


There are so many awesome entrepreneurs, podcasters that I know who can take notes while they’re listening to their guests. But I found that when I try to take notes, I’m actually not listening.

That’s right, you’re zoning out because you’re doing something else.

H3 Multitasking

I just want to touch on that for a second. I have no doubt that the proposal I used to get you and your company as a client in 2015 said something about how I’m a master multitasker.


I am a woman, therefore, I multitask.

Oh, it’s painful to think about it because I didn’t realize at that time that multitasking was preventing me from being the best version of me that I could be.

“Focus on one thing, get it done. Focus on listening, and hear.”

Well, it’s a question of prioritization. I mean, everyone, the ability to multitask is important. But you need to be able to stop, focus and listen if you really want to engage.

Yeah. But I was using it as, “I can work on multiple clients, work at one time.” How is that fair to my clients? There’s a difference between listening to a podcast and washing dishes, and trying to be in different parts of my business all at the same time. I mean, I can’t be podcasting and building an Infusionsoft campaign at the same time.


It’s not fair.

Well, you can, it’ll just be bad.

Yeah, both sides will be bad.

Final golden nugget

What is one golden nugget that you would like to leave listeners with today?

I would want people to focus on the importance of breathing and the understanding that You are a very valuable component of friendship and love, when you listen. When you FULLY listen to hear what other people are saying.

And that is the way to formulate long-term relationships. That is the way to find the love that you’re missing, and allow yourself the freedom of silence.

*The podcast falls on mute entirely*

I had to leave silence there just so I could be absorbed. Do you know how hard that was?

I know, I do. Hahaha!

Get in contact with Marc

Marc, where can people go to connect with you? You yourself, and also Need2Bheard.

People can email me anytime of the day or night at marc@need2Bheard.com. And our website is Need2Bheard.com.

You can reach out any time of the day or night. We would love to hear from you. Any questions, any concerns? Please, we want to be there for You.

Listeners, I want to thank you for joining us today. Marc, we cannot wait six years to have you back on the podcast again.

True that!

So yeah, let’s do this again. I know Marc and I would both love your feedback. Share this episode with the friends who you know need it, and leave a rating and review. That will help us get our messages out into more people’s ears who need to hear what we’re saying.

Marc, do you have any more parting words before we close out today’s show?

I can always have parting words. But I just want to say to people:

Stay cool and enjoy your life. Know that there’s love out there for you, there’s connection, there’s a way for you to really be heard.

And, by the way, I’d like to thank Kim Sutton who does a fabulous job on her podcasts. She’s a brilliant entrepreneur and will be a great friend of mine for many years to come.

Important Links:

  1. Need2bHeard
  2. PP 114, Marc’s first appereance in the pod.