PP 300: Investing Your Time with Steve Olsher

Steve Olsher is the world’s foremost reinvention expert. He is also the New York Times best-selling author of What Is Your What? and host of the number 1 radio show and podcast, Reinvention Radio & Beyond 8 Figures. He also serves as an International Keynote Speaker and in-demand media guest. Steve’s backstory has a lot of messes in the hindsight. But he succeeded through them all by tapping into his ability to create opportunities from seemingly hopeless endeavors. Steve believes that all individuals have a unique gift that will make them shine. That’s why he is passionate and dedicated to helping others reinvent their lives. 

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Kim Sutton: Welcome back to another episode of Positive Productivity. This is your host Kim Sutton. And today, I am thrilled to have Steve Olsher as our guest. Listeners, you’ve probably undoubtedly heard previous guests, and I talked about Steve just a few times mentioning The New Media Summit. But Steve is also the author of Internet Prophets. He’s the host of Reinvention Radio, and the founder, creator, curator, what would you call it? Steve of New Media Summit?

Steve Olsher: At this point, yeah. Well, New Media Summit. Yeah, that for sure. I didn’t know where we were going with that one. Yes, correct. New Media summit. That is correct.

Kim Sutton: All of the above. Steve, I would love it if you would take us back a little bit before everything that I just talked about. What did you want to be when you grew up? I’m not saying that either of us has grown up, I don’t think I’ll ever grow up. But when you were a child, what did you want to be?

Steve Olsher: It’s interesting. I wasn’t like one of those who I know, I want to be this kind of thing. Yeah, I definitely had a bug for music, and I did a lot of DJing and played drums for years and so on. So probably something music related.

Kim Sutton: I didn’t know that. I didn’t know you had it. But well, I guess I will try that again.

Steve Olsher: You know I owned a nightclub, right?

Kim Sutton: Yes. Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah. But I guess I wasn’t really thinking about the musical side, which would be just such an obvious, duh. But yeah, yeah. Listeners who aren’t familiar with you through a journey of your nightclub and how you got to where you are today. I know, it’s such a long story, but maybe sum it up. And because it really is such a journey, and it reminds us all about how we can get through everything and anything.

Steve Olsher: Yeah, yeah, for sure. It’s been an interesting trek. I mean, I had this argument all the time about whether or not entrepreneurs can be made if they are not born. And for me, I just think I’ve always been wired as an entrepreneur. So when I was young, like really young, I was one of those kids that would grab a rake and try to write people’s leaves up, or grab a snow shovel and go door to door and shovel sidewalks and driveways. Just always kind of been par for the course there to try to make a buck or two. And yeah, let you know, I have had a lot of interesting directions over the years from DJing in nightclubs when I was not old enough to be in clubs, and then old, then not even old enough to own my own club. But I actually owned my own club when I was 19. That actually was a non alcoholic club. So that’s a whole other story in and of itself, but I just kind of always had this bug to try to figure out what is needed, and create something that fills that need. So over the years, it’s been real estate development, it’s been catalog companies, it’s been .coms, it’s been writing books, and speaking, and creating events, and coaching people. So it seems like I’ve done just about everything over the years, and some of it has gone really, really well. And some of it like any other venture over the years, you may hit the bumps in the road, but you just keep pressing forward.

Kim Sutton: Steve, when did you have your club? And was that in Chicago?

Steve Olsher: I opened that when I was–

Kim Sutton: Sorry, I don’t need to put an age stamp on you, but there is a reason for it.

Steve Olsher: No, it’s all good. So that was a long time ago. I mean, we’re talking like almost 30 years ago. So I was 19 when I wrote that plan, raised money for that plan, had a vision for the plan, and ended up opening. And I think just after I turned 20, but that was down in Southern Illinois, because I went to school at Southern Illinois University at Carbondale. So this was just actually right off of that in that area. I think I was officially 20 when it opened. But as I said, it was a non alcoholic club.

Kim Sutton: Which I absolutely love. Because I don’t know if I’ve ever shared with you before that I went to school in Chicago. And I know that the club was not closed. But I went to school for interior architecture. And while a lot of my classmates and friends were going out, I would stay in because I lived in dorms where we got security checks to get into our rooms. And if we were impaired, we were not allowed into our bed that night. Well, we had to go find somewhere else.

Steve Olsher: Really? That’s just wrong.

Kim Sutton: Well, if they didn’t want the liability. Rather than go out, I also have a very low tolerance for alcohol. Rather than go out, I would just stay in because I didn’t want to find myself on the red line out in the middle of somewhere. And Steve, I’ve never shared this on the podcast before. When I graduated, I moved to New York to be an interior architect or an interior designer. And there was a party that I went to one evening that was thrown by a carpet company, and a co-worker and I decided that we were going to just have a sip and taste every drink on the menu, everything. Everything because we didn’t have to pay for it. So we were young and dumb.

Steve Olsher: There you go.

Kim Sutton: Yeah. Well, I wound up in the train yard in Stamford, Connecticut at 2:00 o’clock in the morning with no trains running back in the opposite direction.

Steve Olsher: That’s funny.

Kim Sutton: I didn’t know the address of where I was staying because I was staying with a friend. How horrible is that? So I actually had to tell the cab driver to drive to New Rochelle, and just drive around until I recognized something.

Steve Olsher: Oh, God. Yeah. Wow. That’s frightening in so many ways.

Kim Sutton: Yeah. But I’ve learned my lesson. I mean, you definitely didn’t see anything like that in the New Media Summit. I find my way back to my room.

Steve Olsher: Good. Good. Yeah. Evidently, we’ll have to have a monitor or something at the event to keep an eye on you and the others to make sure they make it back safely. And then, of course, they can get up in time for the next day’s festivities.

Kim Sutton: Oh, my gosh, yes. Listeners, when you are listening to this, and this is not like I want to go back to the conversation because it’s such a great conversation with Steve. But when this episode goes live, you have one month left to purchase your ticket to the New Media Summit. The premiere, what would you call it? The first ever event?

Steve Olsher: The Inaugural.

Kim Sutton: The inaugural event was in September of 2017. I have not heard one person, I have not seen one person who did not say that this was not the best event that they haven’t ever gone to. You did a great job.

Steve Olsher: Thank you. Yeah, we have a lot of fun. For those who aren’t familiar with the event, basically, we bring in awesome people like yourself who are top podcasters from across the globe, we bring in 40 of you guys, as we call you the icons of influence. And we give a fairly small group of attendees, 150 attendees, the opportunity to learn from you guys over the course of a few days, and really try to get a handle on how to leverage and monetize the power of new media. But the primary hook of the event is we give folks the opportunity to pitch the podcasters on who they are, and what they do, and literally get booked on the spot. So we learned a lot. We definitely learned a lot from that first event, no doubt. And we’re doing some things that are different. Well, I think we are improving upon the process. So it remains to be seen, but I’m excited about our new format, which is similar but different.

Kim Sutton: Well, I say, I think every single episode on the Positive Productivity Podcast, that Positive Productivity is not about perfection. But even through minor glitches, the event was still incredible. I don’t know if you saw the messages, like the comments that even the icons were having in our own private conversations afterwards. But we were on a high for three days afterwards.

Steve Olsher: Oh, yeah.

Kim Sutton: And then we’re like, oh, and I’m sure you were too.

Steve Olsher: Yeah, yeah. Look, there’s an actual [inaudible], and there are people who are seminar junkies, because there’s something about being in person, especially with the way that we’re set up now. I mean, it’s just getting worse in terms of people working remotely, and not being in larger companies where you see everybody on a daily basis. So for a lot of people, those conferences are like their only chance to be human, like to get out of their own, to basically get out of the house. Yeah. Because so many people work at home. I think that’s a big reason why, if a conference has done well, it can create that sort of need, if you will, to do it again. Do it again, quickly. Because a good event taps into not only people’s desire to be communal and connect with one another. But also, it really taps into just the need that we have as humans to connect on a more intimate level and intimates a term that can be taken a couple different ways. I’m just simply talking about being with other like minded people whose company you enjoy, and you have fun with them. I mean, it kicks off all of the oxytocin, and endorphins, all of that stuff that the brain needs and fires the good stuff. And unfortunately, like I said, we get so caught up in our own day to day lives. That oftentimes, we just don’t get enough of that stimulus. I’m not talking about going to a huge rock concert with lights and crazy this, that, or the other in terms of stimulus. I mean, that can be intellectual stimuli as well, and a good event will be a combination of good intellectual stimulus, as well as more sort of emotional stimulus, if you will. So that’s one of the things that we try to incorporate in all of our events, just not only of course, the learning aspect of it, but truly the fun.

Kim Sutton: Oh, and you did that. I’ve been watching Thriller with my four year old daughter. She wants to learn how to do it. I figured that maybe I’ll learn how to do it for the April event.

Steve Olsher: Good. Well, yeah, you’ve got the whole list. It’s the Thriller, it’s the Cupid Shuffle, it’s the Wobble. We may kick in a chicken dance again just because we can.

Kim Sutton: I know that one. It was one down.

Steve Olsher: Exactly. I think you actually did that one. That was impressive.

Kim Sutton: Oh, I don’t know, but I decided I’m stepping out a little bit more outside of the box system. Because Steve, I had not been to any type of event before the New Media Summit. Close to two and a half years since before my twins were born. Because I found myself in my little entrepreneurial hole right here in Ohio, and I didn’t realize until that how disconnected I was, even though I’m on social media. I have Skype calls, and phone calls, and whatever types of calls with clients all the time. But I didn’t realize just how absolutely secluded I am. But on that topic, your dad, and add the whole listening audience knows I’m a mom times, like quadrillion. Sometimes it feels like, what concerns, or maybe I should rephrase that, do you think we need to be concerned that our children are going to fall into the same secluded hole as they’re growing? I mean, I see my older boys sucked into their smartphones. I know there’s things that we can do about it, take them away, but at the same time, they’re not picking up the phone. And it’s not just them. It’s like all the kids in the community are not picking up the phone and going out anymore. So if we take away the phone, we’re taking away this social interaction that they have with their kids or with their friends. I mean, after school time.. But now, there’s online learning. I mean, my husband got his degree online. So it’s a little bit concerning to me.

Steve Olsher: And reality, all you gotta do is look at our kids. I mean, for adults, like myself, I remember getting my first cell phone. That was something I actually went out and did. And it was a new thing, and that was actually just a phone. So getting a phone that had all of the apps and things to do on it. I mean, that was a whole other experience. Our kids will never know that. I mean, our kids grow up with this as if it’s just a part of an existing extension of their body. So what happens? Well, reality is there are a lot of kids out there who don’t know how to communicate with the child that is literally three feet from them because they don’t look the child in the eye, because they don’t feel comfortable saying the same things to person to person and they would say, via their thumbs. I think our job as parents is really to find that balance, for lack of a better term, police their device usage. I mean, I think that we have to step up to do that because they can’t help themselves. The pictures and the things that they see, again, most of the time, those are going to trigger positive feelings in their brain. Whether they’re looking at a pretty girl, or pretty boy, or they’re looking at a vacation spot, or they’re looking at something that their friend is doing at a concert or whatever it is, it’s like most of the time, the things that they’re looking at are not reflective of how life is on a day to day, moment by moment basis. And so that’s a challenge. That is definitely something that is not going to get better, it is going to get worse. Especially when you live in an environment where it’s tough to do a lot outside. 

I know where you guys are, and our friends in the northeast, and the Midwest, and Canada, and so on where winter hits, and it hits hard. It’s tougher to get out of the house during that period of time to connect with people. And so that’s a challenge. And even as parents, we don’t want to do it, either. It is 12 below, who wants to go out and do anything and all that. I mean, it’s something we don’t want to do, but it is something we have to do. Because otherwise, we do run the risk of our children not understanding how to be social and not understanding how to really thrive when things get tough, because it’s just so easy to kind of get those those finger muscles and stay, just kind of stand behind the wall of that device and it’s going to be challenging for our kids to understand how to really interact with people on a human level unless we teach them how to do it.

Kim Sutton: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Especially with my 15 year old that he’s living with, he’s learning his conversation skills from text messaging. And sometimes, he thinks that what he texts can just as easily be spoken, but it does come out. No, you don’t tell me lol. He’s never done that. But it’s a different language. Don’t talk to me like that. I’m realizing too, that I’m looking back at when I was a child. I remember sitting down on Friday evenings with my whole family, and we would watch the TGIF lineup on ABC. That was like full house and a whole bunch of other shows, and may have even been on Friday nights at that time, I don’t know. But now, I hear more about what their mentors are doing on YouTube, specifically gamers, because that’s what it is in my house. What they’re doing, or the trouble that they get into, and I just don’t remember these things from when I was younger.

Steve Olsher: Yeah. I don’t think that that’s an issue in terms necessarily of,  like back in the day. Back in the day, we used to sit around the radio and listen to the stories on the radio, and then we used to sit around as families and watch the TV, and then it’ll be a new device, whatever it is as kids get older. I mean, we’re gonna get into this, I don’t know, holographic and projection. Lord knows that there probably won’t be a device, so just be a place, if we sit to consume this content, whatever that is, wherever that is. But it’s simply just in my way of thinking. It’s just simply a matter of finding better no matter what the technology is. And even if you’re sitting around watching the TGIF shows or whatever it is, as long as there is some discussion that is built into that, and some sort of interaction between you that’s built into that, it still can be a bonding experience. And at the end of the day, that’s really what it’s all about, just creating those bonding experiences.

Kim Sutton: Oh, yeah, absolutely. Steve, I think it’s gonna be a USB port behind our head or something. I mean, I’m thinking about the matrix with the plug in the back of the head. I think it’s a little bit too intrusive, but just a small USB port. I could use it a lot of the time, especially as I’m trying to write my book. If I could just have that USB port, they could download it and write it for me. That would be awesome.

Steve Olsher: In reality, we will absolutely evolve in terms of how we learn, and how we create. I mean, there’s no getting around that, that is an organic, evolving process. And it’s funny, one of the first websites that I created, I don’t even know how long ago like, Jesus got to be like, well, I created my first site back in 1995, so it’s not going that far. But in terms of my personal brand, for like a Steve old shirt type brand, I think it was 2005 or 6, or whatever it was. But anyway, the graphic image was literally like my head with an outlet. And the tagline was, plugged in, power up. And that’s like, that was my head, like literally what you’re talking about. So I think it’s coming.

Kim Sutton: I didn’t know that. That’s awesome.

Steve Olsher: Yeah, yeah. Do a wayback machine, you’ll see at some point, somewhere on there.

Kim Sutton: Oh, I’m going to, definitely. How do you create? What is your best method for creating?

Steve Olsher: Deadlines. It’s true. I’m all about deadlines. I’m not great without it, I get it done by date. There’s just no doubt about that. What I’ll do is if I create something in my mind that, basically, I’ll have an idea of what it is that I wanted, like the New Media Summit. That’s a perfect example, the New Media Summit’s  a perfect example. So great idea. What ideas are worth and ideas are worth zip without execution. So great idea, but unless I publicly declared it, and unless I found someone to hold me accountable for bringing it to fruition, and unless I actually set a date to do it, it wouldn’t have happened. It’s just as simple as that. So, yeah, it’s really important in my way of thinking when I’m in creator mode to have a date. It’s just like a product launch. You line up partners, you get people to support you, and you gotta have it done. So to me, the most powerful thing of all in terms of creation is the creation of a date. I mean, I think that once you have the idea, the next most important thing is to create that drop dead date of launch.

Kim Sutton: Does it work that same way with your books?

Steve Olsher: It does. When I’m writing for myself, when I’m writing for others, not so much, which is why I don’t do that anymore. Because there was a point in time where I was writing for others. Matter of fact, I still have a ghost writing project right now that I am in the middle of, and I don’t see myself doing that, again, unless it’s a ridiculous amount of money. That said, writing, it depends, right? I mean, if you’re trying to get a mainstream publisher, then you need to set parameters around when you write, how often you write, and meet the deadlines that they set for you. Because if you’re writing for a mainstream publisher, which basically means they buy the rights to the book, you have to meet their deadline. So in that case, yeah, I mean, it does work. As a matter of fact, it’s one of the reasons why you should get a publisher because of the fact that you will have a deadline to meet to basically get the various chapters, or manuscripts, or book proposals, or whatever it is done, that you’re being asked for. So if you’re writing for yourself, it’s a lot harder. You’re writing for somebody else, in that case, if you’re being paid for it, it’s possible to make it happen.

Kim Sutton: See if I need to let listeners know that you were the first coaching that I actually paid money for. I had bartered in the past for coaching, but it hadn’t gone very well. And I signed up for one of your coaching programs, I don’t know if you still have it, quite honestly. Do you?

Steve Olsher: Which one?

Kim Sutton: The BlasterMind.

Steve Olsher: So BlasterMind, I haven’t done for a while now, we put that on hold. Because to me, I want to make sure. Like, if I’m going to be asking someone for an investment, then I want to make sure that it’s like an absolute no-brainer to get a return on their investment, so I’m not going to ask somebody for money unless it’s clear what their return can be for them. So we started a monthly coaching program called BlasterMind, and the intention was to really help people on a monthly basis with their business, dive in, get direction and so on. And what I realize kind of quickly there is that people don’t really necessarily want the information, they just want access to me, and they want direction from me, which is great, but it’s not scalable. And some folks were not getting enough time with me based on the scope, the way that we structured it. And so I’m still toying with that model. But in terms of giving people personal direction, it was 97 bucks a month. And the idea was we’re gonna scale this, we’ll do more groups and that sort of thing. But what was really clear is people just needed individual guidance. So that just wasn’t scalable.

Kim Sutton: Well, I have to tell you and the listeners, based on the quick introduction call that you had with me, and I believe you had with every member entering, you told me based on that first call that chronic idea disorder, I should get an agent and a publisher. And I want to thank you for that because I actually have an agent and a publisher waiting for my first few chapters right now in my official proposal.

Steve Olsher: Sweet.

Kim Sutton: So that’s why I had to ask about books, because deadlines in writing this book are not working for me. Because when I’m not inspired, like when the thought is not right in my head right now, then if I look at white paper, it stays white paper. But what will often happen is I’ll be in the shower, or I’ll be driving or trying to get to sleep. And all of a sudden, it just like a baseball bat hit me across the head, like you better get up and write this down right now. And that’s when ideas start flowing.

Steve Olsher: Mm hmm. Again, I think that the fact, and congrats on getting somebody interested in what it is that you’re looking to do there. Just the fact that you have someone to hold you accountable, I think is a really big step in the right direction. Because the book itself is pretty much reflective of the process that you’re going through, because it’s everything else that’s going to get in the way of actually writing that book.

Kim Sutton: Right, including the podcast.

Steve Olsher: That’s funny, right? I mean, the book itself, it’s like an author land, they say that you write the book that you most need. And that’s where you’re at right now. I mean, the reason why the book isn’t getting done is because you’re distracted by all the other ideas, so you need to write the book.

Kim Sutton: Absolutely. Yeah. I actually had to just put this out there. Last night, a dear friend and client introduced me to an app called Win The Day, and it’s an extension for Chrome. It has me write down my focus for all goals, and how long it should take to reach that goal, and then daily targets, and then there’s even another part of it that will keep me focused for a certain amount of time. And last night, I was using it while I was getting today’s podcast episode out and put up on the site, which I know I shouldn’t be doing, but I still do it because I love it. And I clicked on the focus mode, and it blocks Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, Pinterest, all the big time suckers if you’re not careful. And I decided I’m gonna stick with it for 25 minutes while I’m putting the show notes up and I realized, well, I need to get into Facebook, and I went over there and it blocked me out. And I was like, this is awesome. When I was a little bit resentful of the software at the same time, I was like, this is awesome. I can find something else to do. I didn’t realize at all after that, then I went back to doing what I was doing. And it was like, oh, I should check on this and Facebook. And I tried to do it again. I was like, oh, my gosh, this is gonna be interesting to follow for the next week, as I’m using it and beyond to see how often while I’m in what should be focused mode that I do just wander over to Facebook, or Twitter, or Instagram, because I’m not going to allow myself to anymore, or it’s not going to allow me to.

Steve Olsher: Yeah, it’s tricky. I mean, it definitely is tricky. There’s no doubt about that. And that’s why sometimes, we are our own worst enemy.

Kim Sutton: But do you have any tricks that keep you focused during the day?

Steve Olsher: Well, yes and no. For me, again, just boils down to, I have to have something in front of me that needs to be completed. And that’s why, again, I know that sounds odd. But it’s a matter of having enough things to do. It’s a matter of not having a big enough plate where you can handle a number of different things. So that’s how I look at it . What is most important on that plate right now based on the deadlines? Like for instance, I will be, so in a week from yesterday, I will be shooting the new videos for our Profiting From Podcast launch. Well, if you’ve ever done videos before, there’s two ways to do it. You can just have a general understanding of what you’re going to talk about and wing it. Or you can literally script it and go from a teleprompter. And what I have found is that in certain ways, winging it works. But in a launch environment, having a script and having something that you actually follow is going to be much more effective. So in this case I have to get the scripts done because we’re shooting a week from yesterday. And so that will literally shut everything else off between now and then, until or at least in between now when it’s done. That’s one of the things, especially if other people are relying on you, and I think that’s why I’m having a team and bringing people in to hold you accountable to some extent is super, super important. Because you’re letting other people down if you don’t deliver. 

So when I bring in partners, I need some good size major partners here to help with the launch. If everything isn’t ready from a tech side, or everything isn’t ready from an asset side, if everything isn’t ready for that launch, I’m gonna end up burning bridges. One of those things where you have to play a bigger game, you have to play a game where if you don’t do something and you’re the only one who’s impacted by it, you can still go to bed at night and just be like, yeah, that didn’t work out. But when you bring other people into the equation, and now your actions impact their lives somehow, or impact the quality of the relationship that you have with them, I think you’re going to make many different decisions.

Kim Sutton: Well, going right back to your book, what is your what? You got to know what your what is? You got to know when to say no so that you can get that down. Well, Steve, thank you so much. I just got to say, I appreciate you coming on to the podcast. I appreciate all the opportunities that you have provided to me. Listeners, if you can be at New Media Summit in April or anytime in the future, I strongly encourage you to go and just connect with Steve in whatever product launches you see him have, because the content and the material is amazing. I can tell you that I saw awesome shifts. And I’ve actually put links in the show notes to where you can hear me talking about that in the show notes, you can find it at thekimsutton.com/pp300. Again, Steve, thank you so much.

Steve Olsher: You’re very welcome.

Kim Sutton: Thank you. Where can listeners connect with you online, get to know more, get your awesome resources.

Steve Olsher: Yeah, I appreciate that. Everything that folks need, including information on the New Media Summit and so on is available at steveolsher.com. Of course, the best way for you to get to know me and for us to get to know one another is to come and hang out in person. If you can’t make the New Media Summit work, and in April, we actually do it twice a year. So I think the next one will be in the fall sometime. We haven’t set the date yet for that, but I don’t know if we’ll be sold out or not by the time this airs. I know we sold out last time about a month before, so we’ll see where we’re at. But obviously, we’d love to have you at the next one.

Kim Sutton: And sold out would be an understatement. Because it was such a great event, listeners, that not only was it sold out, but everybody, plus a couple came. So it wasn’t just like the tickets were sold, but it was close to 100% show up, which blows my mind. I’m gonna have to bring lessons about that from you.

Steve Olsher: Technically, it was like, yeah, yeah, right. We’ll talk about that another day. But technically, it was like, 100.3%–

Kim Sutton: Awesome.

Steve Olsher: Yeah, it was pretty nice. Makes me proud, makes me happy.

Kim Sutton: Steve, do you have a parting piece of advice or a golden nugget that you can offer to listeners?

Steve Olsher: What I will say is, look, we’re obviously talking about productivity. So what we’ve been talking about a lot, but I know the focus of the show here is around productivity. So the one thing I will say, when you think about productivity, and certainly as it relates to your time, fact is that there’s really only two ways to use your time. You can spend your time or you can invest your time. And if you spend your time, it’s a lot like spending your money. I mean, you wanted something, you bought it, and that money’s gone. You can’t invest it in $1, there is no longer $1. The dollar has gone versus, of course, if you invest it, hopefully, that dollar turns into $1.10, or $1.20, or two bucks, or whatever it works out to be. So just think about that in terms of your time. Am I spending my time right now? Or am I investing my time.?And most of the time, if you are creating something, you’re in my way of thinking that you’re investing your time. So the important thing to really think about as far as how you use your time is concerned. Am I putting something forth for the world to judge? And if you’re putting something forth for the world to judge, then you are certainly in what I would call that creator mode, and that creator mode is absolutely invaluable. And that’s certainly where the magic happens. But most of the time, people do not want to get judged by others, and they don’t want to put themselves out there and open themselves up to criticism. But just remember, if you don’t open yourself up to criticism, you’re not going to open yourself up to the glory either. So just keep it in mind.